1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Abaissé re-reads the novel in its entirety! All welcome, no matter whether you're reading in French or some other translation. Discussion topics for each step along the way.

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1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Charlette-Ollie » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:21 pm

Volume 1: Fantine, book 3: In the Year 1817

Chapters:
1. L'année 1817/The year 1817
2. Double quatuor/A double foursome
3. Quatre à quatre/Four by four
4. Tholomyès est si joyeux qu'il chante une chanson espagnole/Tholomyes is so cheery he sings a Spanish ditty
5. Chez Bombarda/At Bombarda's
6. Chapitre où l'on s'adore/A chapter where everyone adores one another
7. Sagesse de Tholomyès/The wisdom of Tholomyes
8. Mort d'un cheval/Death of a horse
9. Fin joyeuse de la joie/Happy ending to happiness

In the Julie Rose translation, there are 86 footnotes to go along with the infamous 'The Year 1817' digression chapter. Though most of this book is background information unnecessary to the story (What am I saying? This is Les Misérables, after all) it is here we are introduced to Fantine, after whom this volume is named. She, along with her friends Favorite, Dahlia and Zéphine, and their respective lovers, frolick and have a delightful time. That is, until the final chapter, when the boys think it would be a splendid idea to leave the girls.

In this thread, insulting and cursing Tholomyès is highly encouraged.

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:32 pm

Somehow I think that at least Favorite deserves what happened to the girls. It almost seems as if she and Blacheville were just toying with each other by mutual consent. I mean. doesn't Favorite herself admit that she doesn't love him?
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Hannah » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:15 pm

Yeah, she does. And that she is actually in love with another dude and so forth. IDK if that means she "deserves" the shit they do to the girls, but she is certainly most poised to bounce back from it, I think.

Favourite is totes my favorite (lol) gal in this section - she totally has a personality and opinions and her own experiences etc. FOR WHICH of course she is compared unfavorably with Fantine, who is Inoocent And Pure And Does Not Swing On Swings. WEV, HUGO. :|

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Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:24 pm

Hannah wrote:Yeah, she does. And that she is actually in love with another dude and so forth. IDK if that means she "deserves" the shit they do to the girls, but she is certainly most poised to bounce back from it, I think.

Favourite is totes my favorite (lol) gal in this section - she totally has a personality and opinions and her own experiences etc. FOR WHICH of course she is compared unfavorably with Fantine, who is Inoocent And Pure And Does Not Swing On Swings. WEV, HUGO. :|


Interesting how social comparisons change over time, eh? I guess what I don't like about Favorite is the fact that she somehow is written as snooty and the "Queen Bee" of the group who seems to mock the others' naivete (especially Fantine's). But that's just my opinion.

It goes without saying though that as much as I dislike Favorite, the character in this portion whose neck I want to wring is Tholomyes.
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Hannah » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:32 pm

Yeah, I think we're supposed to dislike Favourite, but all I can see in her flaws is Hugo once again telling us that ladies who know too much or have too many opinions or are too experienced are lesser women and ... ugh. So, yeah, she's abrasive a lot of the time, but god at least she's got a personality.

...I think we can all agree on punching Tholomyes's teeth down his neck, though.

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:06 pm

Hannah wrote:Yeah, I think we're supposed to dislike Favourite, but all I can see in her flaws is Hugo once again telling us that ladies who know too much or have too many opinions or are too experienced are lesser women and ... ugh. So, yeah, she's abrasive a lot of the time, but god at least she's got a personality.

...I think we can all agree on punching Tholomyes's teeth down his neck, though.


Hm. Let me think of Hugo's lady characters who show some actual personality: Favorite definitely, to some degree Mme. Thenardier and Sister Simplice. Cosette and Fantine do get personalities later, but they really pale at times in comparison to Éponine.

Maybe not so much as being "lesser women" but less likely to find themselves on the path to happiness or virtue? Whether this is a result of their inherent flaws or the society around them (as in the case of Éponine), it seems as if a woman who asserts herself in Hugo's universe is not likely to find roses strewn in her path anytime soon.
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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Ulkis » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:47 pm

Yeah, she does. And that she is actually in love with another dude and so forth. IDK if that means she "deserves" the shit they do to the girls, but she is certainly most poised to bounce back from it, I think.


I don't know if you can say anything has really happened to the girls though, except Fantine. Yeah, they get dumped, but that's about it. Don't they casually dismiss the men in the last chapter?

OK, I looked at it, they all think it's a joke. Although go Dahlia, she knows Tholomyes was the jerk behind it. And then they all abandon each other, which is sad and kind of mean. But maybe this scenario happened.

FANTINE: Tholomyes said we should give ourselves to each other as man and wife!
FAVOURITE: Not a good idea.
ZEPHINE: Don't do it.
DAHLIA: Nope.
FANTINE: But he loves me!
FAVOURITE: OK, but don't blame us when he knocks you up, abandons you, and you have to sell your teeth and hair and become a prostitute!
FANTINE: ??

Although it just occured to me, even if Tholomyes wanted to marry Fantine, if he wasn't 25 yet, would he have been able to marry without his parents permission? Since apparently that was the case for Marius.

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby collectingbees » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:08 pm

I love that we are at this part now, because I read it a couple of weeks ago and have been itching to rant about it! :D

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Frédérique » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:16 pm

I don't know if you can say anything has really happened to the girls though, except Fantine. Yeah, they get dumped, but that's about it. Don't they casually dismiss the men in the last chapter?


Well, in the prostitution digression of which Marianne posted translations this summer, they've turned into Patron-Minette's girlfriends, but that didn't make the final cut, so it's not technically canon. But it still seems to suggest that even if he did not write it out he expected them to fare not much better than Fantine in the long run (minus child, presumably). Whether that's down to 'they had one lover, then they got into the habit of it and had a dozen' and/or 'they had one lover who abandoned them and then no-one else wanted to marry them any more because they were not all fresh and un-knowing' (likeliest, I guess) (does it actually mention whether the other three slept with their lovers as well?) and/or 'while courted by the men they had acquired a taste for pretty things and did not earn enough by their work to keep up their expensive habits without resorting to other means' or ... any other of the classic 'hence, whore' tales is anyone's guess; Hugo just says that they fell from circle to circle.

Okay, now I need to actually get reading this part :P

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Ulkis » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:47 pm

I love that we are at this part now, because I read it a couple of weeks ago and have been itching to rant about it!


Where's the rant? I love rants! (for real)

any other of the classic 'hence, whore'


hee.

Thank goodness the part about them being patron-minette's girlfriends was cut. I know it's Hugo, land of coincidences, but that would have been a little crazy. Also, who cares? Well not who cares, but more like, "hey remember those minor characters introduced 500 pages ago that you probably don't remember? They're these guys' girlfriends!" I think we hear too much about Tholomyes as it is. (Speaking of digressions, thank God the part where little Cosette sees Tholomyes or whatever it was was cut.)

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Frédérique » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:20 pm

Yes, Bees! Rant, Bees!

re: crazy coincidences - I wish the 'youngest Thénardier sons doubling as Gillenormand's illegitimate children, then coincidentally being adopted by their real brother' had got lost. It's probably the coincidence with the highest combined values of improbability and pointlessness in the book (I mean, everybody living in the Gorbeau house at some point is not strictly more realistic, but at least it serves the plot).

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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby MmeBahorel » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:27 am

How does Julie Rose get 86 just for the one chapter? These are the 32 from Rosa, and why do I doubt Rose tells us about Chateaubriand taking his clothes off? (If she's just explaining things one can Google, that's one thing - is she going into the sort of connective depth Rosa did?)

Anyway, this is your first chapter. There are 73 in total for the book - let me know if these aren't worth your while, since I don't want to clog the board if they aren't interesting.

Livre III

Chapitre I
1 (Chapter title): L'exactitude locale des faits, que Hugo pouvait connaître par Lesur et à laquelle E. Biré consacra tout un livre vétilleux (L'Année 1817, Champion, 1895), importe moins que leur sens. Il s'établit dans le rapport de ce livre avec Waterloo (II, 1), avec la jeunesse de Marius (III, 3 et 4) et l'évocation des années 1830-1832 (IV, 1 et 10) et avec celle des journées de juin 1848 (V, 1, 1). Il s'établit aussi dans sa valeur autobiographique puisque c'est en 1817 que débuta la carrière de Hugo. Vis-à-vis de l'histoire comme de l'oeuvre du poète, l'époque reçoit ici l'aspect qui convient à l'épisode qui va suivre : celui d'une farce. Pour Hugo, toujours la poussière des faits dément apparemment le sens de l'histoire, mais ici son progrès ne parvient pas à émerger de l'<< éternelle présence du passé >>.
The local accuracy of facts, that Hugo could know from Lesur and to which E. Biré devoted an entire trivial book (The Year 1817, Champion, 1895), means less than their sense. It establishes itself in the relation of this book with Waterloo (II, 1), with Marius' youth (III, 3 and 4) and the evocation of the years 1830-32 (IV, 1 and 10) and with that of the June Days of 1848 (V, 1, 1). It establishes itself also in its autobiographical value since it's in 1817 that Hugo's career began. Vis-a-vis history as the oeuvre of the poet, the period receives here the aspect that suits the episode that will follow: that of a farce. For Hugo, always the dust of weird facts apparently the meaning of history, but here his progress doesn't succeed in reaching beyond the “eternal presence of the past”.

2 (Lynch): La précision de ce profil et peut-être l'effet d'un souvenir personnel ; avec les autres élèves de la pension Cordier, Victor Hugo entendait la messe à Saint-Germain-des-Prés.
The precision of this profile and perhaps the effect is a personal memory; with the other pupils of the pension Cordier, Victor Hugo heart mass at Saint-Germain-des-Prés.

3 (Champ-de-Mai au Champ-de-Mars [Field of May on the Field of Mars/March]): Spectaculaire cérémonie, militare et civique tenue le 1er juin 1815 au champ de Mars, pour recenser et proclamer les votes ratifiant l'Acte additionnel aux Constitutions de l'Empire.
Spectacular military and civic ceremony held 1 June 1815 on the Champ de Mars, to count and declare the votes ratifying the Additional Act to the Constitutions of the Empire (Charter of 1815).

4 (le Voltaire-Touquet [Touquet edition of Voltaire]): Léger anachronisme ici. Le colonel Touquet ne publia en effet les oeuvres choisies de Voltaire qu'en 1820. Les fameuses tabatières contenant le texte gravé de la Charte de 1814 ne furent vendues, elles aussi, qu'en 1820.
Mild anachronism here. Colonel Touquet didn't publish the selected works of Voltaire until 1820. The famous snuffboxes containing the engraved text of the Charter of 1814 were not sold, either, until 1820.

5 (Cluny): L'Hôtel de Cluny, vendu aux enchères en 1807, était devenu la propriété d'un éditeur-imprimeur, M. Moutard.
The Hotel de Cluny, sold at auction in 1807, had become the property of an editor-printer, M. Moutard.

6 (the Duchess of Duras read to three or four friends): Ourika ne fut écrite qu'à partir de 1820. Son auteur, la duchesse de Duras, animait de célèbres soirées où Chateaubriand côtoyait Fontanes, Villemain, Cuvier ou Arago.
Ourika was not written until 1820. It's author, the Duchess of Duras, animated the famous soirées where Chateaubriand rubbed shoulders with Fontanes, Villemain, Cuvier or Arago.

7 (Happiness procured by study): V. Hugo, àgé de 15 ans alors, concourut en cachette de ses maîtres à ce prix. Son poème obtint une mention ; un accessit fut attribué à Charles Loyson – voir note 19.
V. Hugo, aged 15, competed, unknown to his teacher, for this prize. His poem received a mention; a certificate of merit was attributed to Charles Loyson – see note 19.

8 (all the qualities of a seaport): Angoulême était en effet, pour honorer son duc, siège d'une école de marine, transférée à Brest en 1830. En novembre 1817, Hugo dédia au << héros du Midi >> le poème La France au duc d'Angoulême, Grand Amiral, en tournée dans les ports de France (voir V. Hugo, Oeuvres Complètes, édition chronologique de J. Massin, t. I, p. 185).
Angoulême was in effect, to honour its duke, seat of a naval school, transferred to Brest in 1830. In November 1817, Hugo dedicated to “the hero of the Midi” the poem “France to the duke of Angoulême, Grand Admiral, on tour of the ports of France” (see V. Hugo, Complete Works, chronological edition of J. Massin, v. I, p. 185).

9 (a princess of Sicily): Il s'agit de Marie Caroline de Naples.
This references Maria Carolina of Naples.

10 (the Minerva): Ce périodique ne commença à paraître qu'en 1818, mais la faute d'orthographe est authentique.
This periodical did not begin to appear until 1818, but the typo is authentic.

11 (Arnault): Comme David, banni en 1816, et Carnot, proscrit après les Cent Jours et qui devait mourir en exil à Magdebourg, Arnault est une de gloires tombées de l'Empire qui avait fait de ce dramaturge un administrateur.
C'est le 22 mars 1817 que la tragédie Germanicus tomba, plus, semble-t-il, sous les coups de canne que sous les sifflets. Hugo écrivit à ce sujet, le 29 mars 1817, un court poème intitulé Sur la tragédie de Germanicus – voir éd. J. Massin, t. I, p. 159.

Like David, banished in 1816, and Carnot, proscribed after the 100 Days and who would die in exile at Magdeburg, Arnault is one of the fallen glories of the Empire who had made this playwright an administrator.
It was 22 march 1817 that the tragedy of Germanicus closed, more, it seemed, under the blows of a cane than under hisses. Hugo wrote on this subject, 29 March 1817, a short poem titled “On the tragedy of Germanicus” - see edition J. Massin, v. I, p. 159.

12 (statue of Henri IV): Redivivus: ressucité. La statue fut rétablie en août 1818. Victor Hugo avait consacré une ode à cet événement qui était le sujet imposé du grand prix des Jeux Floraux, le lys d'or, qu'il remporta. Il avait assisté au transport de la statue, et y avait participé : << Victor, présent à l'opération, n'y put tenir et il fallut que sa petite main s'attelât au colosse. >> (Victor Hugo raconté par Adèle Hugo, ouv. cit., p. 319.)
Redividus: resurrected. The statue was replaced in August 1818. Victor Hugo had dedicated an ode to this event that was the grand prize subject declared by the Jeux Floraux, the gold lily, which he brought home. He had witnessed the transport of the statue and took part in it: “Victor, present at the operation, could not hold back and his little hand had to hitch itself to the colossis.” (Victor Hugo recounted. p. 319.)

13 (conspiracy of the Bord de l'Eau [Waterfront/Waterside]: Conspiration royaliste qui réunissait, dans l'été 1818, quelques officiers sur la terrasse de Tuileries en bordure de Seine. Elle visait à contraindre Louis XVIII d'abdiquer en faveur de son frère, le comte d'Artois, future Charles X.
Royalist conspiracy that reunited, in the summer of 1818, several officers on the terrace of the Tuileries at the edge of the Seine. It sought to force Louis XVIII to abdicate in favour of his brother, the Count of Artois, future Charles X.

14 (the Épingle Noire [Black Pin]): Société secrète bonpartiste, poursuivie, jugée et acquittée en 1817.
Bonapartist secret society, arrested, tried and acquitted in 1817.

15 (Chateaubriand): Hugo condense ici un souvenir historique – La Monarchie selon la Charte est bien de 1817 – et le souvenir personnel de ses premières visites, en mars 1820, au grand homme. Ce récit est très proche de celui, fait par Adèle, de la seconde visite : << M. de Chateaubriand se déshabilla entièrement, enleva son gilet de flanelle, son pantalon de molleton gris, ses pantoufles de maroquin vert, et dénouant de sa tête un madras, se plongea dans l'eau […]. La toilette des dents vint après. M. de Chateaubriand les avait fort belles ; il avait à leur usage un trousse de dentiste, et tout en travaillant la mâchoire, il continuait la conversation. >> (ouv. cit., p. 336.)
Hugo condenses here a historical memory – The Monarchy According to the Charter is definitely from 1817 – and the personal memory of his first visits, in March 1820, to the great man. This account is very close to the one, made by Adèle, of the second vist: “M. de Chateaubriand undressed entirely, pulling off his flannel vest, his grey-lined trousers, his green moroccan leather slippers, and untying from his head a madras kerchief, plunged into the water. . . . Cleaning his teeth came after. M. de Chateaubriand had very nice ones ; he had for their use a dentist's kit, and while working his jaw, he continued the conversation.” (p. 336.)

16 (Hoffmann signed Z): Dans cet alphabet des critique de l'époque, Hugo distingue le journaliste français Hoffman qui signait << H >> en 1817, mais bien << Z >> en 1824 au bas d'un article peu aimable pour les Odes du jeune poète Hugo qui échangea avec << Z >>, d'abord dans Le Journal des Débats puis dans La Gazette de France, toute un série d'articles, de juin à août 1824.
In this alphabet of critics of the period, Hugo distinguishes the French journalist Hoffman who signed “H” in 1817, but definitely “Z” in 1824 at the end of a not very nice article on the Odes of the young poet Hugo who had exchanged with “Z”, first in the Journal des Débate then in the Gazette de France, a whole series of articles, from June to August 1824.

17 (M. Clausel de Montals): Ces deux frères, le premier abbé, le second député, semblent bien avoir été autant de droite l'un que l'autre.
These two brothers, the first a priest, the second a Deputy, seem very much to have been each as rightwing as the other.

18 (an edition of Voltaire): Ce Pelicier, s'il n'a jamais édité Voltaire, a en revanche été le premier éditeur des Odes de V. Hugo, sans y mettre d'enthousiasme à en croire Adèle Hugo (Voir le Victor Hugo raconté …, ouv. cit., p. 358).
This Pelicier, if he never edited Voltaire, had on the other hand been the first editor of the Odes by V. Hugo, without putting enthusiasm into believing Adèle Hugo about it (see Victor Hugo recounted, p. 358).

19 (M. Charles Loyson): Ce lauréat de l'accessit académique – voir note 7 - , piètre albatros, incarne pour Hugo ce que la Resturation est à la société après la Révolution et l'Empire : une parodie. De même le vers qui suit inverse les terms de celui de Lemierre : << Même quand l'oiseau marche on sent qu'il a des ailes >>. (Voir Victor Hugo raconté..., p. 302.)
This winner of the academic prize – see note 7 – poor albatross, incarnated for Hugo what the Restoration is to society after the Revolution and Empire: a parody. By the same token, the verse that follows reverses the terms of that of Lemierre: “Even when the bird walks one sense that he has wings”. (See Victor Hugo Recounted, p. 302.)

20 (diocese of Lyon): Le cardinal Fesch, oncle de Napoléon, réfugié à Rome après 1815, avait refusé de se démettre de son archiépiscopat.
Cardinal Fesch, Napoleon's uncle, refugee in Rome after 1815, had refused to resign from his archiepiscopate.

21 (Lord Byron): Déjà connu en effet par quelques articles littéraires français et quelques traduction. Mais sa vraie vogue est plus tardive.
Already known in effect by several French literary articles and several translations. But his real popularity is later.

22 (knead marble): Un peu plus âgé que Hugo, ce sculpteur qui fut son ami avait 28 ans en 1817 et exposait pour la première fois. Il entre dans la série – Fourier, Saint-Simon, Byron, Lamennais, le bateau à vapeur, Hugo lui-même – des signes annonciateurs, encore ignorés, du siècle qui vient.
A bit older than Hugo, this sculptor who was his friend was 28 in 1817 and exhibited for the first time. He enters in the series – Fourier, Saint-Simon, Byron, Lamennais, the steamboat, Hugo himself - of portents, still ignored, of the coming century.

23 (who was later Lamennais): Autre souvenir recueilli par le Victor Hugo raconté... (ouv. cit., p. 128), c'est en 1821 que Hugo, introduit par le duc de Rohan, revint sur les lieux de son enfance pour y rencontrer Lamennais.
L'Institut des noble orphelins dirigé par l'abbé Caron, qui était installé lui aussi aux Feuillantines, offre, ne serait-ce que par son nom, un singulier maillon entre le collège des Nobles, la maison d'enfance de Hugo et le couvent qui recueillera Cosette orpheline.

Another memory pulled from Victor Hugo Recounted. . . (p. 128), it's in 1821 that Hugo, introduced by the Duke of Rohan, returned to the places of his childhood to meet Lamennais.
The Institute of Noble Orphans directed by Abbé Caron, which was also installed at the Feuillantines, offers, if only by its name, a singular link between the college of Nobles, the Hugo's childhood home and the convent which will pull in orphaned Cosette.

24 (a steamboat): Lancée sur la Seine en août 1816, cette invention de Jouffroy semble n'avoir rencontré qu'indifférence et se solda par un échec financier. Ce thème sera reprise très largement par Hugo dans Les Travailleurs de la mer.
Launched on the Seine in August 1816, Jouffroy's invention seems to have only met with indifference and ended in financial failure. This theme will be reprised very broadly by Hugo in Toilers of the Sea.

25 (M. de Vaublanc): << M. de Vaublanc, alors ministre, qui avait fait des académiciens par ordonnance, voulut être académicien par l'Académie. Il avait publié un gros lourd poème qu'il applait Le Denier des Césars. Il se présenta, fit des visites, etc. Au premier tour du scrutin, il n'eut que quatorze voix contre seize. M. de Roquelaure, qui avait voté pour lui, dit à haute voix : Donnez-moi un autre nom. Un ministre qui ne passe pas au premier tour ne passe pas du tout. >> (Choses vues, édité par H. Juin, Gallimard, << Folio >>, 1830-1846, p. 483.)
“M. de Vaublanc, at that time a minister, who had made Academicians by decree, wanted to be made an Academician by the Academy. He had published a fat, heavy poem that he called “The Last of the Caesars”. He presented himself, made visits, etc. On the first round of voting, he only had fourteen votes against sixteen. M. de Roquelaure, who had voted for him, said in a loud voice: Give me another name. A minister who doesn't pass on the first vote doesn't pass at all.” (Chose Vues [Things Seen], edited by H. Juin, Galimard “Folio”, 1830-1846, p. 483.)

26 (the pavillon Marsan): Métaphore désignant le locataire : le comte d'Artois, comme plus tard le << château >> désignera le roi Louis-Philippe et son entourage.
Metaphor designated the tenant: the count of Artois, as late the “Chateau” will designated King Louis Philippe and his entourage.

27 (M. François de Neufchâteau): Le Victor Hugo raconté... a consigné l'entrevue, très encourageante et fleurie de vers, que cet académicien accorda au jeune Hugo (p. 303). Comme on sait, cette tendresse protectrice aboutit à une << collaboration >> de V. Hugo aux oeuvres de M. de Neuchâteau, ici reportée sur Marius (III, 6, 4).
Victor Hugo Recounted... recorded the very encouraging and flowery with verses, that this Academician accorded to young Hugo (p. 303). As we know, this protective kindness led to a “collaboration” of V. Hugo with the works of M. de Neuchâteau, here transferred to Marius (III, 6, 4).

28 (the infamous Grégoire): C'est en fait comme << indigne >>, et non << infâme >>, que l'élection de l'abbé Grégoire à la Chambre en 1819 fut annulée par le ministère.
It is in fact as “shameful”, and not “infamous”, that the election of the Abbé Grégoire to the Chamber in 1819 was canceled by the ministery.

29 (M. Royer-Collard): Royer-Collard ne sera élu à l'Académie qu'en 1827. En 1817, il est plus célèbre comme orateur à la Chambre que comme grammairien puriste.
Royer-Collard will be elected to the Academy in 1827. In 1817, he is better known as an orator in the Chamber than as a purist grammarian.

30 (arms around each other/arm in arm at the Bal-Sauvage): Cet établissement réapparaîtra dans Mille Francs de récompense sous le nom de Clapieu, du buste de Napoléon, chose étonnante sous la Restauration.
This establishement will reappear in “A Thousand Francs in Reward” under the name of Clapieu, of the bust of Napoleon, astonishing thing under the Restoration.

31 (deserters of Ligny and Quatre-Bras): Village voisin de Nivelles, un des lieux de Waterloo, voir II, 1.
Neighbouring village of Nivelles, one of the places of Waterloo, see II, 1.

32 (before leaving): << Prière de boutonner votre culotte avant de sortir. >>
Please button your pants before exiting.
What kind of literature and what kind of life is the same question. - Tom Stoppard

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MmeBahorel
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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby MmeBahorel » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:35 am

Ulkis: That was the marriage law at the time (thank you, Napoleon). HOWEVER, Hugo says Tholomyès is 30 when we meet him, and he got Fantine knocked up about three years prior, therefore parental permission was never an issue. He is a thorough douchebag.

Hannah: Tholomyès has no teeth to punch down his neck :)

And I will certainly have more to say once I've done the reading as opposed to "Hey, footnote about Chateaubriand taking his clothes off! WTF?"
What kind of literature and what kind of life is the same question. - Tom Stoppard

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Charlette-Ollie
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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Charlette-Ollie » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:40 am

MmeBahorel wrote:How does Julie Rose get 86 just for the one chapter? These are the 32 from Rosa, and why do I doubt Rose tells us about Chateaubriand taking his clothes off? (If she's just explaining things one can Google, that's one thing - is she going into the sort of connective depth Rosa did?)


Oh, forgive me, that should have been 87 footnotes. I'm just about to rush off, but yes they are just the sort of things you can Google. They are quite comprehensive (albeit lacking that amusing story about Chateaubriand) but were obviously written for your average 21st Century anglophone reader who needs footnotes to know what the hell is going on.

Ulkis
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Re: 1.3 En l'année 1817/In the Year 1817 28/09/10-6/10/10

Postby Ulkis » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:55 am

Ulkis: That was the marriage law at the time (thank you, Napoleon). HOWEVER, Hugo says Tholomyès is 30 when we meet him, and he got Fantine knocked up about three years prior, therefore parental permission was never an issue. He is a thorough douchebag.


Thanks! Not that I doubted his douchebaggery for a minute. And not to stray us to far from the topic, but do you know why Napoleon decided to instill that law? Or was it just, "Napoleon is crazy cakes"?

It's probably the coincidence with the highest combined values of improbability and pointlessness in the book (I mean, everybody living in the Gorbeau house at some point is not strictly more realistic, but at least it serves the plot).


Agreed. I like it when Gavroche takes them to the elephant, but he could have done that with anyone (would have been nice for him to take Azelma instead.)


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