Musical Movie?

Go on about how awful the movie adaptations were here.

Should there be one?

Dear heaven, YES!
59
40%
Maybe, if it's done right.
76
52%
Supreme Being spare us, NO!
11
8%
 
Total votes: 146

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Gervais
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Gervais » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:33 am

Auf die Barrikaden wrote:
Rachel wrote:
Gervais wrote:I tried not to laugh at that part, I promise! And I don't think that OMO was entirely pointless, either, though I agree that BHH was pretty bad on all counts. It's pretty awkward, too, to have him basically screaming in Marius' ear while the poor boy's asleep. How do you sleep through that?


Lol, imagine he woke up.

"Briiiiiing him hooooo-"

"What the hell are you doing?"

"I was just, um-"

"No, stay the hell away from me! Enjolras! There's a creeper at the barricade!"


"GIVE ME MY HANDKERCHIEF BACK YOU PERVERT!! I may be an ex-con and on the run, but I still ordered handkerchiefs with MY initials and will keep the lot!! " ;)

" :shock: Your handkerchief? This is Urs--uh, Cose--uh, Ursula's!"

" :shock: There's another girl besides Cosette? :evil: "

"No, no that's not what I--*dead*"

Auf die Barrikaden wrote:
OMO was her realizing Marius will never love her


Sorry but no. She did that already in AHFOL: "...why regret what cannot be...these are words he'll never say, not to me..."

True. That's how I've always felt about the song, though, not just from the movie. I know, there's more to it than her realizing that, but that's my usual feel from the song anyway.
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Auf die Barrikaden
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Auf die Barrikaden » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:47 am

OMO is a mess anyways and blatantly overrated. :D

Need to talk about the pacing of the theatrical cut again. It's jumpy. Way too jumpy. It leaves no breathers, no rest. Best example: End of "Beggars" - direct cut to Valjean singing. Harsh scene change, even harsher mood change. I appreciate bits like the Epilogue's musical intro even more now. It sets the mood, the pace, the place, the time, it gives the audience the chance to settle down for this emotional peak. *keeps finger crossed for an extended cut someday*
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Rachel » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:48 am

Riiiight, I forgot about that. It was her realizing he'll never love her, and that her life will basically just always suck, since the part in that song that sort of punches you is "a world that's full of happiness that I have never known". It's her coming to terms with A) that he'll never love her B) that her life sucks C) that it'll always suck D) he doesn't need her, and that their relationship, even in friendship is almost completely one sided E) that her life has always sucked and will remain sucking.


Lots of letters.
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Rachel » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:51 am

I am a defender of OMO purely for the last bit. The rest can leave, I don't care. I just really like this part. It really shows that she need him in her life as her only source of light, but he doesn't need her at all. That his world is pretty cool, and her's sucks. That she's miserable, and he doesn't care, and he doesn't need her. That's pretty devastating.

I love him
But when the night is over
He is gone
The river's just a river
Without him
The world around me changes
The trees are bare and everywhere
The streets are full of strangers

I love him
But every day I'm learning
All my life
I've only been pretending
Without me
His world will go on turning
A world that's full of happiness
That I have never known

I love him
I love him
I love him
But only on my own
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Auf die Barrikaden
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Auf die Barrikaden » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:55 am

Rachel wrote:Riiiight, I forgot about that. It was her realizing he'll never love her, and that her life will basically just always suck, since the part in that song that sort of punches you is "a world that's full of happiness that I have never known". It's her coming to terms with A) that he'll never love her B) that her life sucks C) that it'll always suck D) he doesn't need her, and that their relationship, even in friendship is almost completely one sided E) that her life has always sucked and will remain sucking.


Lots of letters.


Lots of letters which seem to be contained here quite nicely:

One more day all on my own (A,B,C,D,E)
One more day with him not caring (A,D)
what a life I might have known (B,C,E)
but he never saw me there (A,B,D and kinda E)

:)
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Flynn » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:11 am

I actually think "One Day More" should've been cut on the basis that it barely serves a purpose and the song itself, at least in its current English form, is terrible as a cinematic number.

At the very least, the way it was filmed here was awful.

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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Rachel » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:22 am

When I saw it, I had to sit on my hands to keep from clapping afterwards, actually.

But I can't think of another way they could have done it. Besides split screens, and that would have been cheesy as hell.
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Flynn » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:47 am

See, and that's the thing- it's nearly impossible to do it well enough so that it has the same (or similar) effect as it does on stage. Frank Rich basically said as much when he originally reviewed the show- the whole reason the number is as effective as it is is that they're all in one single place on the stage belting out the various intertwined motifs and stories. Splitting it up will invariably lessen that impact.

The only ways I could think of to do the number well on film would be to do a series of cross-fades (which I would argue could only really work with the OFC version of the song), or to find a through-line to follow through the montages- where you drift musically from one character to another to another to another, only cutting back to previous characters when it makes logical sense to. The film made stabs at that sort of thing, but had way too many cuts to really make it work properly- I would rarely ever cut back to Valjean, for instance, but the film did it constantly.


Really, though, the main thing is that the number is at its heart rather surreal and embracing a non-realist theatrical sort of tradition. Any usage of it is going to have to utilize that in some fashion, so from the start it just wasn't going to work for Hooper's ultra-gritty-super-realistic take on the material. That coupled with his unwillingness to use shots that were more than two feet away from the actors and you have a pretty terribly shot number.

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Acaila
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Acaila » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:01 pm

It's trying to do a highly non-naturalistic number in a more naturalist medium in a largely naturalist style. I think it could have been better staged in the movie to solve some of that. Like why was Javert wherever he was? It wouldn't have been hard to change that, arrange some of the other characters to be physically closer and do away with the need for so many quick cuts between them. I've always had a mental image of how I would stage it in a movie and....yeah my vision is better, sorry Hooper :D
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Flynn » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:04 am

Acaila wrote:It's trying to do a highly non-naturalistic number in a more naturalist medium in a largely naturalist style.


Agree with this, but wouldn't say film is inherently a more naturalist medium...it's just that a lot of people nowadays choose to do it that way.

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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Acaila » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:20 am

I very pointedly didn't say inherently ;).
Non-naturalistic films are significantly rarer than non-naturalistic theatre, so it's a medium more commonly associated with naturalism, that's all. You could debate the mediums and talk about how filmic conventions actively disregard different strands of semiotics which non-naturalist theatre uses in favour of making use of specifically cinematic ones, and thus becomes more naturalist inherently through those.
But really, that's being rather pedantic when I actively avoided categorising film as a solely naturalist medium in the first place.
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby ancslove » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:34 am

I think that no matter the order, Éponine's parts in A Heart Full of Love, One Day More, and On My Own all reinforce and repeat the same basic points and themes. "He was never mine to lose". "What a life I might have known." "Without me, his world will keep on turning, a world that's full of happiness that I have never known."

It's repetitive, and can be either powerful or boring overkill in its repetitiveness, depending on how one feels about Éponine.

The big reveal about and plot point introduction in One Day More is Javert joining the insurgents as a spy. Narratively, that's the new information here, since at least IMO, it would probably be more surprising if Marius had not joined the Amis. For me, his dilemma always rang a bit shallow and false, since he was (in the musical) pretty much Number 2 of the group. Marius deciding in ODM to follow Cosette, and then having a last-minute change of heart and joining the barricade late would have been a plot reason for ODM as well as a bit more in keeping with Marius in the book. But as it stands, the real plot importance of ODM is Javert. Otherwise, it's your classic "Gearing up for the Fight" montage scene. That said, I think that Hooper staged it well with the literal montage. It's not original, but Hooper tried enough other original direction with IMO varying degrees of success, and fight preparation montages work efficiently.

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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Juliet24601 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:45 pm

Yeah I think you're right, apart from Javert as a spy I think the contribution of ODM isn't plot-based so much as emotional - each character is poised for the climax of the drama and the staging is probably meant to play a part in that. It might be interesting to compare the movie version with the cast's performance at the Oscars when it was staged more traditionally with all present at once. It's so long since I saw the film I can actually hardly remember :(
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Acaila » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:40 pm

Still, Javert didn't need that setting to establish his plot role :)
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Re: Musical Movie?

Postby Rachel » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:47 pm

Juliet24601 wrote:Yeah I think you're right, apart from Javert as a spy I think the contribution of ODM isn't plot-based so much as emotional - each character is poised for the climax of the drama and the staging is probably meant to play a part in that. It might be interesting to compare the movie version with the cast's performance at the Oscars when it was staged more traditionally with all present at once. It's so long since I saw the film I can actually hardly remember :(


The Oscar one isn't very good. They had to make the song shorter and they crammed Anne Hathaway in there and you can't hear the Thénardiers and ugh.
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