2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Abaissé re-reads the novel in its entirety! All welcome, no matter whether you're reading in French or some other translation. Discussion topics for each step along the way.

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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby WhoIam » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:40 pm

So much for "men can never change." He doesn't just disprove Javert's belief, he completely demolishes it.
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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby humanracer » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:34 pm

I wonder how much of this influenced the classic 60's TV show The Prisoner. No idea if this was popular in the US, but the show was about a secret agent who finds himself trapped in a mysterious village where he is known only as a number (number 6). The classic line from the show is "I am not a number, I am a free man".

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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:59 pm

September 3, 2013

In which the reader will peruse Two Verses which are of the Devil's

http://www.online-literature.com/victor_hugo/les_miserables/91/

Things that go digging in the night
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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:53 pm

September 4, 2013

The Ankle-Chain must have undergone a Certain Preparatory Manipulation

http://www.online-literature.com/victor_hugo/les_miserables/92/

An act of heroism, a plunge into the ocean.
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby between4walls » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:02 pm

Some context for the "war in Spain" referenced in this chapter and why the French expedition was such a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Thousand_Sons_of_Saint_Louis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trienio_Liberal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_del_Riego

plus my favorite obscure historical reference:
"beside the son of France as generalissimo, the Prince de Carignan, afterwards Charles Albert, enrolling himself in that crusade of kings against people as a volunteer, with grenadier epaulets of red worsted"
Charles Albert, father of the first king of Italy, was on that expedition for an unusual reason; I unpacked this here and to add to that post, the "grenadier epaulets of red worsted" is a reference to the battle of Trocadero, where he won the Cross of St Louis by grabbing the colors of regiment of grenadiers and leading them across the canal to attack the enemy's guns. The grenadiers honored him by giving him the epaulets of a member of the regiment who had been killed in the fighting. Charles Albert was extremely proud of those epaulets, and showed off the red epaulets to Alexandre Dumas when they met in 1840.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby humanracer » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:10 pm

between4walls wrote:Some context for the "war in Spain" referenced in this chapter and why the French expedition was such a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Thousand_Sons_of_Saint_Louis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trienio_Liberal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_del_Riego

plus my favorite obscure historical reference:
"beside the son of France as generalissimo, the Prince de Carignan, afterwards Charles Albert, enrolling himself in that crusade of kings against people as a volunteer, with grenadier epaulets of red worsted"
I unpacked this here and to add to that post, the "grenadier epaulets of red worsted" is a reference to the battle of Trocadero, where he won the Cross of St Louis by grabbing the colors of regiment of grenadiers and leading them across the canal to attack the enemy's guns. The grenadiers honored him by giving him the epaulets of a member of the regiment who had been killed in the fighting. Charles Albert was extremely proud of those epaulets, and showed off the red epaulets to Alexandre Dumas when they met in 1840.


Thanks for that! I wonder how Dumas viewed the war. I don't really know if he was for or against these absolutist monarchies.

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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby between4walls » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:18 pm

I don't know about Dumas's view on that particular war, but Dumas was not a fan of absolutism by any means- he participated in the 1830 revolution and later (in the 1860's) served in Garibaldi's government in Southern Italy (Garibaldi was running the place for a few years after having invaded and overthrown the absolutist government). I got that particular memory of Dumas's out of a footnote in the memoir he ghostwrote for Garibaldi.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby between4walls » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:21 pm

Both Dumas and Hugo were the sons of generals who rose during the Revolutionary period (in Dumas's father's case) or the Napoleonic period (in Hugo's father's case) and who couldn't have attained such a rank under the ancien regime, so it would be surprising if they looked that fondly on absolutism. In Hugo's case, he did support absolutism in his youth, but he was raised by his royalist mother after his parents split up and only developed a relationship with his father later in life.

Of course absolutism=/=monarchism, and there were more constitutional monarchists in France at the time these writers lived than true absolutists, as Charles X proved when he tried to rule like an absolutist.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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Re: 2.2 Le vaisseau L'Orion/The Ship Orion 30/11/10-2/12/10

Postby between4walls » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:40 pm

Actually, I do have Dumas's opinion on the war, in the same book I got the other info from. He strongly disapproved of it and thought it was a "disgrace" (this is written in 1860, several decades later. I don't have anything closer to the 1820's when the war took place).

He respected Charles Albert's courage as a "grenedier" but disapproved of him in other ways (eg for executing a number of revolutionaries in the 1830's).
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.


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