1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Abaissé re-reads the novel in its entirety! All welcome, no matter whether you're reading in French or some other translation. Discussion topics for each step along the way.

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Rachel
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Rachel » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:44 am

This scene always gets downplayed in the musical, but dude. Why don't we fangirl more over the Bishop and Valjean? They're so much cooler than they ever get credit for!
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Aurelia Combeferre
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:47 am

Hormones and appeal.

Though I honestly wish I could meet more clerics like the Bishop. And that Valjean could be my dad (maybe with just half the paranoia).
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Rachel » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am

Pfft, Les Amis, whatever. Can we make Valjean and the Bishop fanclubs? They could have Tumblr! fyeahvaljean.tumblr.com? idontswearbecauseimbishopmyrielyeah.tumblr.com? Pretty please?
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:07 am

You could do it, Rachel. :D Not planning to use Tumblr anytime soon, for fear of actually getting too distracted. :lol:
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby humanracer » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:47 pm

Rachel wrote:Pfft, Les Amis, whatever. Can we make Valjean and the Bishop fanclubs? They could have Tumblr! fyeahvaljean.tumblr.com? idontswearbecauseimbishopmyrielyeah.tumblr.com? Pretty please?

I think (and this is just my theory) that it is because a large number of people in Les Mis fandom are either teenagers or early 20's. I say most because I know there are several exceptions on here (myself included). So natrually these people are going to write about the people they most identify with such as young students who have passionate beliefs. Also the student part of the book takes place in a sightly more modern time so that makes it more relevant to modern readers too. That is not to say people don't appreciate Valjean or the Bishop but I am sure you average teen blogger can relate more to a revolutionary student movement than clerics.

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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Gervais » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:34 pm

Rachel wrote:Pfft, Les Amis, whatever. Can we make Valjean and the Bishop fanclubs? They could have Tumblr! fyeahvaljean.tumblr.com? idontswearbecauseimbishopmyrielyeah.tumblr.com? Pretty please?

Do it! :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: Though, maybe you could do one for both of them, and call it fyeahsilvercandlesticks.tumblr.com?

humanracer wrote:
Rachel wrote:Pfft, Les Amis, whatever. Can we make Valjean and the Bishop fanclubs? They could have Tumblr! fyeahvaljean.tumblr.com? idontswearbecauseimbishopmyrielyeah.tumblr.com? Pretty please?

I think (and this is just my theory) that it is because a large number of people in Les Mis fandom are either teenagers or early 20's. I say most because I know there are several exceptions on here (myself included). So natrually these people are going to write about the people they most identify with such as young students who have passionate beliefs. Also the student part of the book takes place in a sightly more modern time so that makes it more relevant to modern readers too. That is not to say people don't appreciate Valjean or the Bishop but I am sure you average teen blogger can relate more to a revolutionary student movement than clerics.

That, and with things like the movie especially, it's two awesome but strange and old men, versus a bunch of good looking guys that you can ship/easily write modern AUs of/overall identify with/basically turn into whatever you want within wide boundaries (Though, honestly, I had problems keeping them separate in my head for months after I read the book, and didnt really become a fan of any of them until the idea for a Jehan fic came up in the chat thread. Maybe the Amis fans are just more vocal than the Valjean & co. fans, too, especially in tumblr).
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:55 am

July 1, 2013

Little Gervais

http://www.online-literature.com/victor_hugo/les_miserables/27/

A brief encounter again with Valjean's inner shadow.
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Acaila » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:44 pm

Aurelia Combeferre wrote:Joining in with the Valjean feels! (while listening to the movie recording).

I try to picture him agog and squinting before this ineffable light.

But let me give you M. Myriel feels. This is one of the largest acts of faith in the entire book. He had no way of knowing if Valjean would ever really become an honest man. He was not entirely sure if Valjean still believed in God. And yet he still gave the silver, and the candlesticks as well....believing that somehow good could come out of the situation.


I've not had the time to join in with this so far, but I was browsing in my lunch hour and liked this point about faith. Faith in others is just as important.
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:52 pm

It takes a man of either extreme courage or extreme naivete to have that faith.
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby Gervais » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:09 pm

Aurelia Combeferre wrote:It takes a man of either extreme courage or extreme naivete to have that faith.

Considering everything else he's done, I'd say extreme courage. It's really easy to make fun of how naive he can seem to be, but he's not "lalalalala the world will be pretty," he's more like " if we try, we can make the world prettier," which is a horrible paraphrase but hey.

As for this chapter, Little Gervais' appearance acts mostly just a final release of what badness was left in Valjean, I think, and it's what makes Valjean think over and really absorb what the Bishop told him and what he himself is. I wonder if anyone had tried to attack Valjean, instead of just passing him by the road, if he would have hurt or even killed them,and if he did, how differently he would treat the situation afterwards. Because once he realized what he's done to Gervais, he acts almost like he's killed someone instead of stealing a coin from them (though yeah, that coin was more or less the majority of the boy's earnings), so maybe....
Though maybe not; part of why he hates himself so much afterwards is because taking money from a kid is so cowardly, and killing a man in self-defense wouldn't be. If anything, it might make him forget what the Bishop had told him, and instead of transforming himself he'd sell the silver and spend his life in prison or hiding away to stay out of it.

As he wept, daylight penetrated more and more clearly into his soul; an extraordinary light; a light at once ravishing and terrible. His past life, his first fault, his long expiation, his external brutishness, his internal hardness, his dismissal to liberty, rejoicing in manifold plans of vengeance, what had happened to him at the Bishop's, the last thing that he had done, that theft of forty sous from a child, a crime all the more cowardly, and all the more monstrous since it had come after the Bishop's pardon,--all this recurred to his mind and appeared clearly to him, but with a clearness which he had never hitherto witnessed. He examined his life, and it seemed horrible to him; his soul, and it seemed frightful to him. In the meantime a gentle light rested over this life and this soul. It seemed to him that he beheld Satan by the light of Paradise.


I have no idea where the idea of Valjean killing a man came from; I'm choosing to blame Bohemian Rhapsody.
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Re: 1.2 La Chute/The Fall, 15/09/10-27/09/10

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:23 pm

Ach, this is a major fail; just realised I've had this post here as a draft for the past several days, and not sent it, each time. :oops: Sorry, a bit late, okay, very late, but I did write these parts earlier. :oops:

Valjean and the Bishop don't get nearly enough love, and it's quite sad, though very understandable. Personally, I'd be all up for trying to bring Valjean and Myriel back into fandom popularity. :mrgreen: Though I guess they never were very popular, so I guess we'd be more bringing them in for the first time...but still.

Aurelia Combeferre wrote:It takes a man of either extreme courage or extreme naivete to have that faith.

I kind of like that idea, too, as well as what you said earlier about faith, Aurelia, and I think it's really telling, and that is way that faith, while not knowing that Valjean would even take the advice, worked, I think. Not only did Myriel not know, but he was willing to put everything on the line, and give the greatest possession he had all for the sake of a single chance. Anybody might do that for a certainty, but only a few would give up everything for someone else's chance, and that's probably what let Valjean know that he really was loved by the Bishop, and led him to try and follow what he'd said.

Also, now, yay for Petit Gervais! :mrgreen:
Gervais, I completely agree with you, there, and I think you're right, especially on it being the last release of his badness. I think that it actually works well that it was such a small thing, because a big thing could have clouded everything the Bishop said and thrown him back to normal, whereas a small thing, I think, which came so naturally to him, forced him to reexamine his moral code, and really, entire being/existence.
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.


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