Popular Fanon

Meta related to characters, plots, or other elements introduced by Victor Hugo in Les Misérables.
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freedomlover
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby freedomlover » Wed May 29, 2013 2:18 am

Exactly! He was smart, he knew about revolutions in the past. He also however was very trusting that the people can rise up, which I totally understand- I get that way also ;) He was so eager to have them help, he let Javert right into the barricade. Of course, Javert did the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing. I was fooled that Javert changed sides the first time I saw Les Mis. I have done similar things though here on lesser scales, gave random people party signs and information- only to find out they were actually democrats trying to look like republicans and attempting to look like they were helping when they stole our signs and did not even put them up...

Evil Cosette is a product of some Eppie boppers indeed ;)
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YoungStudentMarius
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Wed May 29, 2013 2:26 am

One thought I had, which may be rather silly, but about Eppy-boppers and Cosette-haters and all that, sad as it is: I suppose it is nice, when you look at the core of it, that however misguided it may end up, or twisted and wrong in interpretation, whatever misconception and simple fault it may be, the comforting way to look at it is that humanity has an inherent tendency to root for the underdog, which is, in a sense, what Les Misérables is all about. Not condoning any of the behavior, of course, but, as it's said, every fault and talent is a double-edged sword, and in messing up the interpretation, at least you know there is a core of empathy at the bottom, which just needs to be better channelled.
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freedomlover
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby freedomlover » Wed May 29, 2013 2:28 am

That is a really good way to put in Marius :)
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Majestic_Picnob » Wed May 29, 2013 2:40 am

I'd imagine Cosette hate comes from silly teenagers who notice that Cosette does have a few traits in common with the stock "alphabitch" character from their high school movies, such as having a doting, rich dad who'll do anything for her. They seem to miss that "actually being an alphabitch" is not one of those traits.

I can believe that Hugo may have wanted us to root for Éponine on some level, though. The book's very nearly named after her (or at least, her family) after all...
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Mademoiselle Mabeuf
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Mademoiselle Mabeuf » Wed May 29, 2013 2:46 am

Oh, I don't know. Isn't everyone in the book miserable at some time or other?
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Majestic_Picnob » Wed May 29, 2013 2:50 am

Mademoiselle Mabeuf wrote:Oh, I don't know. Isn't everyone in the book miserable at some time or other?


They're the only ones explicitly called "les Misérables," though. At least in the translation I have. :P
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Rachel » Wed May 29, 2013 2:57 am

Will someone tell me where evil!Cosette springs from? I simply do not understand her...


I agree with Marius on where this comes from. Especially because in these stories you can see that Éponine is poor and downtrodden, and all that jazz. Which may be an excuse for hurt and comfort, and they may be making her a woobie, but comfort. I think it says something about people that the thing all of the reviewers say is "make her happy again!". I think it says something very nice about people's ability and even reflex to sympathize with characters, even ones who are unbelievable. Definitely misguided in hating Cosette, but hey, optimism.
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Marianne
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Marianne » Wed May 29, 2013 3:17 am

I'm not sure I'd call Enjolras naïve at all. Narrow, certainly, and therefore without much interest in, ah, the finer aspects of life outside his laserlike focus on the Revolution. (Poetry! I was talking about poetry, you pervs!) But he seems to be the one most focused on the French revolutionary tradition, which was a mixed bag of triumph and defeat, and by the end of 1830 it had already been stolen and co-opted twice by monarchs and dictators. It had also, mind you, survived a good ten years with a civil war going on and literally every other country in Europe allied against it, which was the actual context for the ruthless clashes of ideals that emerged on all sides in the crucible of 1793. And that's something Enjolras would be familiar with: how and why such things happened, and the full moral weight of bloodshed--even necessary bloodshed--in the name of principle. He's the one least inclined to let himself off the hook for executing Le Cabuc; he literally condemns himself to death for it, and follows through. (Another strike against the idea of Enjolras as naïve: he's the most warlike of any of them. It's easy to picture Combeferre as a statesman in a French Republic, but Enjolras? He's a general, a soldier-priest. Combat and revolution are his element, and he fights in order to cede the future to men like Combeferre.) As for whether the people would rise up... again, long revolutionary tradition. They rose in 1830, they rose in 1832 before that fizzled out, and what do you expect the Amis to do with a popular revolt sweeping all of Paris? Stay home? Join the ranks of the republicans who abandoned the people because they figured the odds weren't certain enough, and in so doing doomed the June Rebellion? They're not exactly setting up camp with a single barricade in the Rue de la Chanvrerie, hoping the rest of Paris will get the idea. Paris is in rebellion, and it's their duty to fight alongside their fellows.

As for that "the twentieth century shall be happy" bit... Enjolras here is no more naïve than Hugo himself, and Hugo's predictions for the twentieth century were more nuanced than fuzzy-bunny utopianism. He predicted, for example, the end of war as a formally-declared clash of armies, and predicted that that model would fail because both sides would possess weaponry of such mind-blowing destructive power that neither would dare use it. When he said there would be no more history, he meant history as nineteenth-century Europe understood it: formally-declared clashes of armies, power struggles between dynasties carving up the map to suit their feuds and alliances. I think he thought the 20th century would largely manage to fix the problems of the 19th and go on to develop more advanced problems of its own that the 19th century could scarcely conceive of. It's actually a pretty perceptive prediction, especially in some of the details (mutually assured destruction as an end to war between great powers!)... at least where Europe is concerned. Outside of Europe he was awfully fuzzy on the details and just theorized madly, which meant his opinions on (say) the future of Africa were both horrifying and completely out of touch with reality.
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Rachel » Wed May 29, 2013 3:26 am

Stupid!Grantaire annoys me. He's not stupid, he's a waste of potential, which is what makes him so tragic and infuriating.
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby freedomlover » Wed May 29, 2013 3:28 am

I actually would have probably expected the revolution to work :) I think everybody here knows the outcome- but knowing me if I was in his shoes, I would have been thinking the same "hey, the people will rise up!"
Naive was when he let Javert in believing Javert was a regular citizen, than telling Javert to spy. Than again, who am I to judge? Because I was just as convinced that Javert actually joined the revolutionaries ;)
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WhoIam
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby WhoIam » Wed May 29, 2013 3:58 am

When I first saw the movie, I was going, "What is Javert doing on the barricade?" And then he came back, and the way he said everything, I just had the aha moment. I think my grandpa was talking when he said he was going to spy on the revolutionaries during One Day More (we were the only ones in the theater), so I didn't realize what he was doing until then. :oops:
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Acaila
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Acaila » Wed May 29, 2013 8:54 am

How is it naive? He didn't know who Javert was. In the midst of an attempted revolution you can't stop to check everyone's papers and give them a pop quiz on the finer points of revolutionary philosophy. And even just the description of the Musain shows that they gave concerns of security a thought.
And at the barricades, his thought is not "oh maybe he has changed sides." It's "let's sort out the spy". And he is, also at the barricades, rather realistic about chances and what awaits them once the situation becomes clearer.

And Marianne makes a point that I feel is often forgotten in fanony circles - an attempted uprising was happening with or without les amis. Revolutions don't always wait for the perfect moment. Feeling a lot of comparisons with the Arab spring but with work starting in seven minutes I think I'll need to leave it til later
Revolution: like Christmas come early only with more death
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Marianne
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Marianne » Thu May 30, 2013 12:32 am

Just a note--I'm reading a fascinating book on Charles Jeanne right now, and the author puts forth a theory that (a) the failure of the June rebellion was partially due to the opposition leaders and mainstream republicans in positions of power (the ones who had legislative seats or edited influential newspapers) completely disowning the revolt instead of putting their support behind it, and (b) the reason they did so wasn't just to save their own hides; they had been planning their own insurrection for the anniversary of the July Revolution, figuring it had the best chance of success, and were pissed off that the leaders of various secret societies jumped the gun and the public jumped with them. So powerful republicans sitting it out when they did a cold calculation of their chances and deemed it not worth the risk might actually have been what doomed the 1832 revolt. (In general, it seems that the failure of 1832 stemmed from the republicans being not bold enough rather than too bold; I've also heard it said that if they'd stormed the Hôtel de Ville right away and declared a republic, they would probably have won.)
[Dieu] entend ta voix, ô fille des hommes! aussi bien que celle des constellations; car rien n'est petit pour celui devant lequel rien n'est grand.

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Aurelia Combeferre
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Thu May 30, 2013 1:33 am

Thanks for this, Marianne. I'm about to go write some AU power struggles and this is necessary info.
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Acaila
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Re: Popular Fanon

Postby Acaila » Thu May 30, 2013 6:59 am

Marianne wrote:Just a note--I'm reading a fascinating book on Charles Jeanne right now, and the author puts forth a theory that (a) the failure of the June rebellion was partially due to the opposition leaders and mainstream republicans in positions of power (the ones who had legislative seats or edited influential newspapers) completely disowning the revolt instead of putting their support behind it, and (b) the reason they did so wasn't just to save their own hides; they had been planning their own insurrection for the anniversary of the July Revolution, figuring it had the best chance of success, and were pissed off that the leaders of various secret societies jumped the gun and the public jumped with them. So powerful republicans sitting it out when they did a cold calculation of their chances and deemed it not worth the risk might actually have been what doomed the 1832 revolt. (In general, it seems that the failure of 1832 stemmed from the republicans being not bold enough rather than too bold; I've also heard it said that if they'd stormed the Hôtel de Ville right away and declared a republic, they would probably have won.)


Is this the "A cinq heures..." book?! You must post your thoughts on it for us! (this isn't helping with my resolve not to buy it either!)
The potential for AUs about the rebellion there...awesome!
Revolution: like Christmas come early only with more death
Abaisse Chief/Chef
"Les Amis Fun Package - The Awesome Traits of Each"
"She's basically Enjolras meets Amy Pond"
Sings Stars "way better than Russel Crowe"


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