Scarlet Pimpernel

Discussion of musicals other than Les Misérables.
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Acaila
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby Acaila » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:42 pm

Yessss, some of the lyrics in Into The Fire are truly dire. "There will always be a valley" is one that always rankles with me for some reason. Overextended metaphor I think. I like Only Love and When I Look At You, they're good songs to belt out.
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby 23623 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:32 am

Not only the valley one. The entire song is just so...dumb. It's not even inspiring. :roll:

I like "When I Look at You" too! I also like "Where's the girl" for obvious reasons. In German SP it's right after "Storybook" and before "Madame Guillotine", but in English version it's after "When I Look at You". Wondering what's the plot difference here.

Speaking of "Madame Guillotine"...am I the only one who hears "you'll be sleeping with Madame Guillotine" instead of "you'll be smitten with Madame Guillotine"? I know the correct lyrics, but I still hear that. :mrgreen:
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby CC21106 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:03 pm

23623 wrote:....am I the only one who hears "you'll be sleeping with Madame Guillotine" instead of "you'll be smitten with Madame Guillotine"? I know the correct lyrics, but I still hear that. :mrgreen:


That's creepy, 23623!
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby Acaila » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:38 pm

Wait, sleeping is wrong?! :shock: (told you I was dumb!)

I watched the 1982 movie last night, since I found out it's the only one (except for Hair, but that's not as much a favourite as the Scarlet Pimpernel) of my favourite movies my boyfriend hasn't seen. He enjoyed it, liked Percy and admits it was practically made for me to love. :lol:
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby CC21106 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:02 am

Acaila wrote:I watched the 1982 movie last night,

Is that available online? I looked up SP on Youtube and there are a lot of choices. Wait, I see one you have to pay for. That looks like it. Is it worth $2.99?
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby 23623 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:18 am

I just watched the 1982 movie on Youtube. :D Someone uploaded the full movie divided in 14 parts.

My first reaction: wait what...did I just see GANDALF there?!!!

It surprises me that Chauvelin does have a first name. "Paul Chauvelin" doesn't really sound good to me though.

And poor Chauvelin. I don't know why I sympathize with him so much. I know unlike Javert he's supposed to be the villain, but I still think he needs a hug. *hugs Chauvelin* :(
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby deHavilland » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:50 am

Haha, Paul. They used Paul in the Richard E. Grant/Martin Shaw/Elizabeth McGovern mini-series, too.

His name in the books is Armand, but in that way where books can have multiple characters with similar names, the film industry shies away from that like horses and snakes: they seem to favor Paul instead. God forbid we confuse Chauvelin with Marguerite's brother. There's far too many Armands to keep track off!

Now if you really, really want to sympathize with Chauvelin, I would go for that mini-series I mentioned above because Martin Shaw in the mud tied to a fence post. Hello. (Elizabeth McGovern is terrible in everything as Marguerite though.)
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby Acaila » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:27 pm

Yeah, the 82 movie is on youtube in 14 parts. I know at least one of the Leslie Howard films is up there too.
The mini series was a big disappointment tbh. There was at least one scene where Martin Shaw was ...hello, but otherwise I prefer Ian McKellen's pouting and trying to retain his dignity while quivering with indignation. And while I generally love Richard E Grant, Anthony Andrews is frankly sublime as Percy and nobody could outdo Jane Seymour in my affections, so it's good that McGovern doesn't even bother trying.
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby deHavilland » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:35 pm

Yes, but as you've already sold 23623 on watching the '82 and that's been done, now we're talking in terms of broadening peoples' horizons and introducing them to other things that eventually lead to even more other things -- if you like Jamie Bamber in the Scarlet Pimpernel mini-series, just wait until you see Horatio Hornblower!

The mini-series deliberately plays Chauvelin as someone that the audience is meant to grow to like. The antagonist here is the revolution itself, with both Percy and Chauvelin playing protagonists who are just playing the cards that have been dealt them in their own ways. They made a point of creating mutual respect between both characters which you don't really see in the musical or film adaptations, but which does start to appear in the books as they progress. Which is more interesting to me than deliberately vilifying one of them: Javert and Valjean on equal footing but with different methodologies and belief systems is better than evil!Javert vs. angelic!Valjean. Same story for Chauvelin and Percy.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby 23623 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:30 pm

I revived this thread to ask about the English version of SP musical but ended up getting more than I'd expected. Thanks a lot, Acaila and Havvy! :D

deHavilland wrote:His name in the books is Armand, but in that way where books can have multiple characters with similar names, the film industry shies away from that like horses and snakes: they seem to favor Paul instead. God forbid we confuse Chauvelin with Marguerite's brother. There's far too many Armands to keep track off!

Well...that makes sense though. I heard that in Game of Thrones they also changed a character's name to avoid confusion with another character sharing the same name. And since the directors have such little faith in audience's intelligence, I guess someday Prouvaire will also be renamed to avoid confusion with Jean Valjean. :mrgreen:

deHavilland wrote:Now if you really, really want to sympathize with Chauvelin, I would go for that mini-series I mentioned above because Martin Shaw in the mud tied to a fence post. Hello. (Elizabeth McGovern is terrible in everything as Marguerite though.)

It's a BBC adaption isn't it? Can't find it online but I pity Chauvelin already. Who did this to the poor guy?

deHavilland wrote:The antagonist here is the revolution itself, with both Percy and Chauvelin playing protagonists who are just playing the cards that have been dealt them in their own ways. They made a point of creating mutual respect between both characters which you don't really see in the musical or film adaptations, but which does start to appear in the books as they progress. Which is more interesting to me than deliberately vilifying one of them: Javert and Valjean on equal footing but with different methodologies and belief systems is better than evil!Javert vs. angelic!Valjean. Same story for Chauvelin and Percy.

Oh...this is how I always interpret Percy and Chauvelin's characters: I already like Chauvelin in the book because vive la republique. :mrgreen: He really devotes himself to what he believes in, just like how Javert serves the law. I just can't not like him when he speaks of the republic in the movie. However he's a cold and ruthless version of Javert (I know he's intended to be the villain). Javert would never blackmail anyone in order to capture Valjean or send people to the guillotine without a blink. I think what Percy opposes is more about the terror and unnecessary bloodshed than the republic itself and he's absolutely right about that. So although he seems to be "the enemy of the republic" I still like him a lot. And I'd love to see Percy and Chauvelin showing some mutual respect, though I admit watching Percy teasing little Chauvelin is really fun. :D

*EDIT* Fixed some grammar
Last edited by 23623 on Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby deHavilland » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:54 pm

23623 wrote:And I'd love to see Percy and Chauvelin showing some mutual respect, though I admit watching Percy teasing little Chauvelin is really fun. :D


You can still respect someone but tease them relentlessly! 8)

And if I recall correctly, it was a small resistance group that tied Chauvelin up for being a Republican spy. Percy wasn't on the scene yet.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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Acaila
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby Acaila » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:27 pm

It's been a while since I read the books, but they're not quite as fair to Chauvelin as Hugo is to Javert, are they? Orczy really wasn't keen on the revolution, pffffft.
Revolution: like Christmas come early only with more death
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"She's basically Enjolras meets Amy Pond"
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby deHavilland » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:32 pm

Yeah, the Baroness may or may not have had her reasons for being anti-Revolution.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby 23623 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:13 am

Found the mini series finally. But why on Earth is it dubbed in Spanish and without subtitles? Spanish practice for real. :roll:

Oh. My. God. Marguerite looks so old! How old is she in the book? 24? 25? She looks older than Percy in the series and it's totally not acceptable!

The guy playing Chauvelin reminds me of...someone. Can't pin down who exactly (I'm really terrible at names) but it must be another actor. And he also looks too old. When I read the book I imagined that Chauvelin is as old as, or a little older than Percy at most (I may be wrong though).

Good thing that at least Percy is not physically miscast. But if Marguerite and Chauvelin are aged up, shouldn't he be older as well to keep everything in proportion? :mrgreen:

Anyway...it seems to be an interesting adaption. I'll give it a try. Will let you know what I think of it after I finish. Thanks again for the recommendation, Acaila and Havvy!
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Re: Scarlet Pimpernel

Postby deHavilland » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:43 pm

They're all skewed that way. Elizabeth McGovern (Marguerite) was 38, but Richard E. Grant (Percy) was 42. Not that you would be able to tell because Elizabeth McGovern is so simpering and terrible. ;)
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"


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