Unpopular Opinions

Any discussion related to any production or staging of Boublil and Schönberg's Les Misérables.
Ursula_F
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby Ursula_F » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:53 am

I think 23623 was saying that Fantine doesn't have black hair in the book, and that it's not biologically possible for a black-haired mother to have a blond child. Black is a dominant gene.

But given how common it is to cast Éponine with a black actress while the Thenardiers are white, I suspend disbelief on genetics in "Les Mis." :)

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23623
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby 23623 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:38 am

Oh, yes, that's what I mean. Thanks for Combeferre-ing, Ursula! Cosette is brunette in the book if I remember correctly. And sorry for not having expressed myself clearly. Was really tired when I posted that. Sorry for other typos and grammatical mistakes too!

In terms of personality I just can't understand why Gavroche is a Thenardier. :lol: He's such a lovable boy, but his parents are truly the devil.

And HIGH FIVE, CC! Colm is good as the bishop, but as Valjean he's not that good as many might claim. His voice is ANNOYING, and he looks like he's really...standing in his grave. When he sings that line “there's something I can do”, all I can think is “...well, doesn't seem like that!” :roll: :lol:

Now I don't really have a preference between dark and blond Enjy. I'm fine as long as he doesn't look like the little brother of the group, lol (hello, Anton!)
Last edited by 23623 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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deHavilland
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby deHavilland » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:08 am

Ursula_F wrote:I think 23623 was saying that Fantine doesn't have black hair in the book, and that it's not biologically possible for a black-haired mother to have a blond child. Black is a dominant gene.


Actually, just to step in with a little biological input: because black is a dominant gene, it is entirely possible for someone with dark hair to produce offspring with either dark or blonde hair, depending on their own genetic make-up.

For example:
-> My maternal grandfather had dark hair so he gets an R.
-> My maternal grandmother had light hair, so she gets an r.
-------> My mother inherited their genes, so she's Rr.
-------> For my dad, same story. Dad with dark hair, mom with light hair, so he's Rr as well.
-------------------> When I was born, I got one allele from my mom and one from dad. I'm either Rr or RR, so I have dark hair.
-------------------> For my little brother, same story, he's either Rr or RR.
-------------------> But when my sister was born, she got my mom's r and my dad's r, and she's rr and that means she's blonde! Even though both of our parents have dark hair!

If Tholomyes were blonde (or one of his parents was blonde), and one of Fantine's parents blonde, then Cosette could be blonde from a dark-haired Fantine. The biologically improbability** comes from two blonde people producing a dark-haired child. Because they would only have r's to give, and thus their child would be rr and also blonde.

**An improbability because random genetic mutation is a thing and it can affect those R's or r's, so nothing is a sure thing anyway.

Ursula_F wrote:But given how common it is to cast Éponine with a black actress while the Thenardiers are white, I suspend disbelief on genetics in "Les Mis." :)


Technically the same rules above apply, if the Thenardiers had any sort of ethnicity somewhere in their background that could have been passed down dormantly over the generations, but that turns into this whole debate about whether race is the result of phenotypes or genotypes and it doesn't really have any bearing on how a musical is or should be cast. But the science remains!


tl;dr in which Havvy hijacks the unpopular opinions thread to talk about s c i e n c e.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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23623
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby 23623 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:27 am

Havvy you're officially the Combeferre of the forum. :shock: The last time I did biology was like 4 years ago. Obviously I've forgotten all the stuff taught in class.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby CC21106 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:06 pm

What does “tl;dr” mean?

"Too long; didn't read."
No problem, deHavilland. I read it. Good explanation, better than sweet peas.
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby deHavilland » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:35 pm

23623 wrote:Havvy you're officially the Combeferre of the forum. :shock:


Ugh, I wish. Somewhere across the pond, Acaila is laughing her butt off at the very idea.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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Acaila
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby Acaila » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:01 pm

deHavilland wrote:
23623 wrote:Havvy you're officially the Combeferre of the forum. :shock:


Ugh, I wish. Somewhere across the pond, Acaila is laughing her butt off at the very idea.


Further proof that you do know everything :lol: ;)
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby TheRandomPhangirl » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 am

23623 wrote:
Samantha used to be my favorite Eppie, but that was when I had only watched the movie, TAC and 25AC. And now my favorite Eppie is the girl from CSR. Even more unpopular. :oops:


Apologies for digging up a post from over a month ago, but I adore Kaho Shimada's Éponine too. Her, Frances, Celia K-B and Melissa O'Neil are my favourites in the role. Eva Novelzada was pretty good too, as was Emma Kingston.

My own unpopular opinion: oh how I've tried to warm to Tveit!Jolras, but four years later he still leaves me utterly cold. Not the worst Enjolras ever, and certainly not the worst I've seen, but nothing about his portrayal inspires any emotion, which is a shame considering how much I adore the character, both in book and musical.
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23623
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby 23623 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:02 am

TheRandomPhangirl wrote:
Apologies for digging up a post from over a month ago, but I adore Kaho Shimada's Éponine too. Her, Frances, Celia K-B and Melissa O'Neil are my favourites in the role. Eva Novelzada was pretty good too, as was Emma Kingston.

My own unpopular opinion: oh how I've tried to warm to Tveit!Jolras, but four years later he still leaves me utterly cold. Not the worst Enjolras ever, and certainly not the worst I've seen, but nothing about his portrayal inspires any emotion, which is a shame considering how much I adore the character, both in book and musical.

Phangirl, can I hug you? :D I LOVE Kaho Shimada even though I can never spell her name unless somebody shows me how. Say what you will about her English, but I'm totally fine with that. Also...(not sure if it's her that actually starts this) I have a feeling that Éponine can make a fantastic anime character. There's something about her that really fits into those Japanese anime.

Agree with you about Aaron Tveit. I know he must have attracted thousands of fangirls but I don't find anything special about him. I didn't even know the character's name when I had just watched the movie. Having rewatched it recently, I still don't think he's that good. My own most unpopular opinion about Enjolras though is that I actually don't like him in the book and I don't care much about him or other amis in the musical. I'm sorry, fandom. :oops:
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby Prisoner 24653 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:22 pm

Woohoo, Kaho Shimada fans! :mrgreen: She was the second Éponine I listened to -- picked up the CSR after discovering the show through the OLC but before seeing the TAC -- and I still have a major soft spot for her. Even though she's right in the middle of my rankings of the 'Ponines featured on the Japanese cast albums now, and I'm not sure where I'd rank her on my all-time list. *After seeing Phan's post, makes a note to look up Melissa O'Neil, as I don't think I've heard her*

Think I agree with you both on Aaron Tveit. Loved his look as the character, liked his voice even if it wasn't as booming as most stage Enjolrati, and I think his super-stoic interpretation would be perfect for a straight non-musical adaptation of the Brick (and on an unrelated note, *really* liked him on Brain Dead)... but for the musical, even in a version trying to bring in more Brick elements, I don't think it works all that well. Especially with all the cuts to his lines in the final edit (which weren't his fault, certainly, but left his character lacking in a way that he might not have been very memorable to someone for whom the movie was their first introduction to the story and musical, or perhaps even for some who are well-acquainted with them).

I've been rather out of it as far as boots of the show (especially when it comes to recent casts)... Need to look up a few and see if I can come up with more to post here.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby deHavilland » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:53 pm

I'm starting to think these aren't unpopular opinions -- at least not for the erudite hodmen of Abaisse, anyway, in comparison to the multitudes of others who are quite vocal on the internet. I'm with you all on the "I-really-like-Kaho-Shimada-but-Aaron-Tveit-does-nothing-for-me" train.

Prisoner 24653 wrote:*After seeing Phan's post, makes a note to look up Melissa O'Neil, as I don't think I've heard her*


Oh, you really must! I always find myself shying away from claiming that newer performances are my favorite, I guess it's that lame superiority complex of like "well, if you say someone from the past couple of years is your favorite, I'm going to assume you don't know about anyone else" which is a thought I definitely apply to people who claim Swenson is their favorite Javert or McCarrell is their favorite Marius, for example. But Melissa O'Neil was a phenomenal Éponine. Easily one of my top favorites.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby Morbidmuch_ » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:02 pm

I've only recently come to realize that liking the 25th anniversary concert is somewhat of an unpopular opinion, and I have no idéa why. I mean Nick Jonas looks like he's pooping the entire time, but other than his performance I really love the 25th.
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Acaila
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby Acaila » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:27 pm

The other thing I feel, with newer favourites, is that it's harder to impress someone the more they've seen. Also rose tinted glasses of course. My first London cast is very over represented in my dream cast, and only one person from the last four years would make it in (admittedly there are a few that come close) to my absolute favourites in the role. So I think more experienced Mizzies are almost automatically prejudiced against newer performers, and not just out of being snobby. That's my excuse anyway :D
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Olivia_y
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby Olivia_y » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:22 pm

Melissa O'Neil is one of the few I took a liking to just listening to a bootleg, the accent took a bit of getting used to though, but probably won't matter to Americans (or Canadians).

Just because people haven't seen many performances doesn't discount their claim that someone is their favourite, that's purely subjective. As long as they've seen more than one that is, otherwise it's a meaningless statement.

On the other hand, if people are trying to argue someone is objectively the 'best'...well, that's a whole other concept.

I think first exposure definitely has a big influence. It'd be interesting if people could go back and re-watch their first ever show -without the influence of nostalgia - and see how that measures up.

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Acaila
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Re: Unpopular Opinions

Postby Acaila » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:55 pm

I wish I could remember my first cast better. It's my second live cast (after TAC and OLC too) where I really started to pick favourites, but that's because, for my first cast, it was the characters I fell in love with, and the actors just *were* the characters at that point to me. Oh for a "souvenir" of the original production UK tours :(
Revolution: like Christmas come early only with more death
Abaisse Chief/Chef
"Les Amis Fun Package - The Awesome Traits of Each"
"She's basically Enjolras meets Amy Pond"
Sings Stars "way better than Russel Crowe"


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