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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:43 pm
by MmeBahorel
OMG, impressions of Charles X! Must include in fic!

Beardless and tight trousers = Sacred Band of Thebes

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:33 pm
by Frédérique
OMSB...I'm laughing so hard here I think I'm actually feeling a bit ill through clenched stomach muscles!

That sounds dangerously similar to a spasme d'hilarité, you know!

OMG, impressions of Charles X! Must include in fic!

I'm, er, not terribly sure what the Charles X. part actually says (nor what, exactly, Gombeferre is supposed to be doing) so (following the Constance Garnett school of translation) I forewent consulting the dictionary and gave what I thought it should have said for maximum literary value - here it is for those with serious French skills (I can do only clothing, y'see):
Le tumulte attira l'attention de la foule dense, resserrée par la file de voitures et l'encombrement que formaient, autour des lingères, les étudiants farceurs, un Gombeferre battant le briquet pour le pétard de Noémie que Cavrois protégeait de sa corpulence et de ses avis, un Gourfeyrac montrant aux promeneurs la caricature de Charles X, la mâchoire béante et la denture en saillie tandis que lui-même imitait les discours des dompteurs forains.

(Not sure why there is 'un' Courfeyrac and 'un' Combeferre, either.) 'Montrant la caricature' probably means he's holding up a drawing ... but I prefer the impressions theory (and if it's not what it means at all, that's all the more of a reason for you to write it) :D It's so in tune with the chap who gives you the figures on the costliness of kings.

He (Courfeyrac) definitely is supposed to be a Fourierist, by the way:
On avait entendu les homélies fédéralistes de Michel Chrestien, les déclamations émues de Ribéride, les expositions fourrieristes de Gourfeyrac, les conférences astronomiques et mystiques d'Arago, les vagues appels au combat du fougueux Raspail et du tragique Auguste Blanqui, les sèches démonstrations saint-simoniennes du major Gresloup [...]

Unless a 'fourrierist' is something else, of course. Ought not Chrestien to be a Saint-Simonian, too? What I wonder is whether Adam actually put any thought into these things - "Let's see, Courfeyrac is a fellow who has no inhibitions about adding a woman to his 'collection', so he would be in favour of a theory that proposed making a considerable 'collection' of physical relations the norm, even considering the satisfaction of multiple people's passions (in spite of being deeply devoted to one at best) a service to the harmony of society" - or whether he just ... threw them on the table à propos de rien.

The commissaire (named Leloir - is this anybody one ought to know? he probably turned up in one of the earlier books) is not only charming (in the irony with which he states that he could not contradict E. without being impertinent, which he has no desire to be) but also joli.
Smoking Enjolras is-- he doesn't seem any more likely to have a habit than to smoke for any reason other than out of habit, unless it's question of making grand gestures with lighters. (Certainly not a social smoker. Unless it was absolutely necessary to share a cigar with a charming commissaire as a manoeuvre of distraction.) I can see and always have seen just about every Ami smoking habitually (right down to Combeferre - not absent-mindedly while bent over books and papers, but maybe taking one break every eighty pages), but Enjolras is ... at once too calm (thus not smoking in the assumption of being able to concentrate better) and too tense (thus not smoking for leisure, as a way of loosening up). Actually, if anything, he vaguely reminds me of the type who smoked heavily between ages eleven and fourteen and quit when they found there were much more interesting and sophisticated 'grown-up' things to occupy themselves with - and then remain non-smokers for the rest of their lives without anyone ever suspecting them of even knowing how to inhale. (I mean, that's completely far-fetched. But ... well, it's completely far-fetched. And I have no idea what the average age to start smoking was among the bourgeoisie under the Restauration.)

I'm going to hunt down the second(/fourth) book come what may, I have to see how he handles 1830.

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:23 pm
by Col.Despard
Oddly enough, I included an Enjolras-does-not-smoke moment in my last chapter of SOR, in which Combeferre categorically observes that he "doesn't even smoke" (implying that it is rather outside the norm), using Michael Collins' reasoning. Collins was a chain smoker until he observed "I was becoming a slave to tobacco...I'll be a slave to nothing." A slightly unusual perspective in c. 1920 Dublin, when everyone puffed away.

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:53 pm
by MmeBahorel
I admit I mostly avoid it because it's nearly all pipes at this period and I just can't get the mental pictures right. I mean, in a different era, I just totally imagine Courfeyrac and Bahorel in particular as chain smokers(and if it's the 1960s, Joly glaring at them because he's going through withdrawal because he just read an article in a medical journal saying smoking is going to kill us all). Lesgle constantly bumming cigs from everyone. But pipes aren't doing it for me. I nearly had Courfeyrac pull a pipe out of his pocket in the Enjolras meets Courfeyrac bit I was working on, but I ended up dropping the line because I couldn't quite get it to look right. I could see it, but it looked like I was pushing it because it was period appropriate, not because I wholly enjoyed the image.

Do you think Jehan has a hookah? :)

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:12 am
by Marianne
I am pretty sure cigars are an option--plenty of students smoking them in George Sand's Horace, which is set in 1832.

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:02 pm
by Frédérique
Tiens! I did not read that. But that - "I was becoming a slave to tobacco...I'll be a slave to nothing." - is roughly the reasoning I was thinking of saying he seemed unlikely to have a habit - it is not so different from his not drinking. Staying sober has more immediate practical advantages than staying smoke-free (now, of course a cloud of smoke can be aesthetically enhancing - a person who interviewed Bryan Ferry on television said later that he insisted on being seated at a specific angle from the camera in order to be able to hold his cigarette in a certain position and have his contours elegantly obscured by the smoke rising up, a method I do not recommend applying if one is simultaneously refining one's spy pose by unfolding a very large newspaper - but if one already has a billowing halo-mane, it might be an impairment rather than an improvement) and I think tobacco is more quickly addictive, but ... it would be an abstinence on a theoretical basis as much as on a practical one, no? Be it a conscious, explicit decision (which, if it can be reported in a catchy phrase like Collins', has a dramatic bonus) or an instinctive distaste for any pointless, more or less mind-altering habit.

Since it's said of the back room that 'on y fumait, on y buvait', it seems probable that a few of the regulars would be smokers of some variety, unless they're merely fuming as in having heated discussions. Cigars must be an option, surely? (They probably narrowly missed the widespread advent of cigarettes ... but very narrowly.) Everyone in Balzac smokes cigars, too. But then, everyone in Balzac sleeps with duchesses, and Horace, too, entertains some ambitions in that direction, so perhaps they're the accessory of choice for the idle ambitieux rather than the charitable bohémien (though Sand also gives a fat cigar to a celebrated bousingot)? There's an undying internet rumour (... I always read it phrased nearly exactly the same way, so it probably all comes from the same source) that Spanish cigar[r]itos were taken up by the working classes and their bourgeois sympathisers during and after the Revolution as a demonstrative alternative to posh snuff-taking, which might be interesting if it's true. If.
As far as Hugo's world is concerned, Tholomyès and Bamatabois smoke cigars (confirming the things' association with the tomcat rather than the kitten), and they're sold for five centimes (one sou) apiece at the prison cantine in '32. So students with a taste for them (and no fears of looking too much like their fathers) could have afforded a cheap variety at least.

I nearly had Courfeyrac pull a pipe out of his pocket in the Enjolras meets Courfeyrac bit I was working on, but I ended up dropping the line because I couldn't quite get it to look right.

But ... Courfeyrac would make such a good pipe smoker (well, in my eyes :P) - a connaisseur, even, who gathers all his friends to share the amazing new mixture he has found! (... and now I am seeing the ABC like the Arcadians in Barrie's "My Lady Nicotine". Actually, that's an excellent association. Can just picture C. always receiving letters from a newspaper, à la Jimmy Moggridge, suggesting that he makes his living as a journalist, and everyone making guesses at which sharp satire, which penetrative critique he authored this week, only to find out some day that he actually runs ... well, probably not a letterbox for Mothers Pets, exactly, but a column in a ladies' rag on What The Well-Dressed Man Is Wearing.) He would either have a collection of pipes or keep losing or breaking bowls or mouthpieces while bursting out laughing near an open sewer. (Bossuet, similarly, but I also see him running around with his pockets full of cigar stubs which may just have a puff or two left in them.)

And yes to Jehan's hookah!

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:59 am
by MmeBahorel
What part is this? The fourth (based on the list of works in the back)?

Google Books and one of my friends whom I force to lurk on Abaissé when I can possibly to the rescue.

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:05 am
by Lauchlin
MmeBahorel wrote:Google Books and one of my friends whom I force to lurk on Abaissé when I can possibly to the rescue.

Oh no! I have gone and registered myself here finally. Will the forum ever be the same?

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:08 am
by MmeJavert
I hope not! ;) Good to see you here.

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:27 am
by Lauchlin
MmeJavert wrote:I hope not! ;) Good to see you here.

And I even did a intro post. I am so following the rules here. Well, sort of. Since I responded to Jess's comment first.

Now you will kick me off! Because you don't know who this person is.

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:05 am
by Frédérique

That is the fourth part! You have officially been named Heroes of the Week. On the risk of being stupid - there is no way of getting it to display more than three lines at a time, is there?

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:37 pm
by MmeBahorel
It's Google books, so if you're just on "read" (in the left hand navigation bar), you can page down, zoom in and out, get the text as large or as small as you want it.

If you've done "Search within this book" and now have your list of hits, click on the page number that shows up and it'll pull you to the exact page, with your search term highlighted.

And this should be Part III.

I think Harvard has all of them, so if you just search the titles and"paul adam", you should be able to find them all on Google Books. Just select whichever edition comes up with "full view" at the end of the description. Then you can even download as PDF if you want.

(Combeferre, le dandy has a cravat in silk "flamme de Vésuve". I'm dying of laughter.)

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:18 pm
by Frédérique
Hm-hm. I am beginning to suspect the book is only available in certain countries - I can't seem to get into any 'read' modus at all. Normally, with a book I can access, clicking the cover in the left-hand menu takes me straight to the first page, all ready to browse around either from cover to cover or throughout what ever excerpt there is, whereas in this case there is no link from it at all. And on the overview page, where there is normally a blue box under the summary/review (if existent) saying 'Preview this book' (or even 'Read this book') ... is no such thing. (I am on the page for the edition with a 'snippet view' available - I get 'full view' for none.) And the menu itself - no 'preview' link, only 'overview', 'reviews', and 'buy'. No PDF, either (though I found the full text of "La ruse" on - the one with the Jollllyfied transcription). I do have the search function, but apart from bringing up no more than three hits no matter how ostensibly common the term, it brings out only these excerpts of three short lines (hardly full sentences) and won't allow any clicking on the page numbers :(

(Glad to see Combeferre's wardrobe choices reflect the heating up of the political climate!)

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:31 pm
by MmeBahorel
Hmm, because I am linking directly to the copies I can view full text. There are multiple copies on Google Books, some of which I have no preview available for. Perhaps one of them will work for you?

In any case, when I get home this afternoon, I'll try to download all the books as PDFs and upload them to my own webspace and see what happens. Seems worth a try, anyway.

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:48 pm
by Lauchlin
You might want to try this:

Au Soleil de Juillet:

It's the National Library of France's online digitalized library. They have quite a few of Paul Adam's books, including the ones that you are looking for. They can be downloaded, and since I'm in the US and can get them, they should hopefully be available worldwide.

Actually, it's a very interesting and fun site as far as all the awesomeness they have available.