Quatrevingt-treize

Anything by Victor Hugo besides Les Misérables.
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Aurelia Combeferre
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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Sat May 18, 2013 9:58 am

I like how Hugo doesn't put people on a spectrum in this one: Lantenac, Cimourdain, and Gauvain are all awful in their own ways and yet they all act according to what they deem is right. It's one of the ultimate 'gray area' situations.

And there's Hugo's chapters upon chapters on Michelle and her kids. Parallels again to Fantine?
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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between4walls
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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby between4walls » Sat May 18, 2013 10:04 am

Aurelia Combeferre wrote:And there's Hugo's chapters upon chapters on Michelle and her kids. Parallels again to Fantine?


There's the blink and you'll miss it reference to Michelle being sexually exploited/forced to sell herself as she desperately tries to get directions and find the kids.

She thought of all the adventures which she had been through; she thought of all she had suffered, of all she had received; of the encounters, the indignities, the conditions made, the bargains proposed and undergone, sometimes for a shelter, sometimes for a piece of bread, sometimes merely to get some one to show her the way. A wretched woman is more unfortunate than a wretched man, because she is an instrument of pleasure. Frightful wandering on foot. But nothing made any difference to her so long as she found her children.


There's another mother/prostitute figure in NDDP. Everyone says Hugo has a Madonna/whore complex, but I think it's really a Madonna-whore complex. It's not a separation into chaste and unchaste but a combining of the two archetypes. All his saintly Madonna figures prostitute themselves.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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Aurelia Combeferre
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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Sat May 18, 2013 10:10 am

In NDDP it's Paquette La Chantefleurie, isn't it?
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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby between4walls » Sat May 18, 2013 10:03 pm

Yeah. Not by any means a saintly character, but made holy by her motherhood.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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between4walls
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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby between4walls » Sat May 18, 2013 10:13 pm

Aurelia Combeferre wrote:I like how Hugo doesn't put people on a spectrum in this one: Lantenac, Cimourdain, and Gauvain are all awful in their own ways and yet they all act according to what they deem is right.


And though they've all killed, it's precisely their most humane good deeds that lead to the tragic ending- Lantenac saving the kids, Cimourdain teaching and basically parenting the younger Gauvain, Gauvain sparing Lantenac.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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Aurelia Combeferre
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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Sun May 19, 2013 4:55 am

Exactly there. The final discussion at the end between Gauvain and Cimourdain astounds me. I was surprised at Gauvain's mind; how did he get there??
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby between4walls » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:31 am

Just found this out and it's hilarious- Hugo's mistress Juliette Drouet's birth name was Julienne Gauvain. She was not from the Vendee (which was in the province of Poitou); she was from Brittany.

There's also the connection of the name to the knight Gauvain/Gawain.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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Aurelia Combeferre
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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:51 am

I got the Gawain connection but Julienne Gauvain is pretty darned interesting. Good find!
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby between4walls » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:32 pm

Really interesting essay on Quatrevingt-treize and Hugo's use of excess by Italian author Umberto Eco (of The Name of the Rose fame). It's translated into English and well worth reading.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

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Re: Quatrevingt-treize

Postby 23623 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:02 pm

I've been thinking about Quatrevingt-treize a lot these days. Just read a few posts of this thread and my mind was cracked by the idea of Ayn Rand being a Hugo fan...Seriously, how could she be? In terms of ideology, she is opposed to almost everything Hugo advocates. First things first: she doesn't seem to have any sympathy for the dispriviledged! In terms of writing style, her story plot and characterization are rather lame; some of her characters seem to be too unrealistic. They only serve to prove her point. I apologize that my views may be biased because I don't like Rand (both as a writer and as a philosopher) and I've only read one book of her, namely Atlas Shrugged. But really, I can't get the slightest clue how her writing was inspired by Hugo.

I can't open the link on page 2 so now I still have no idea what Rand writes in the "Introduction to Ninety-three". But I just read this article:
http://atlassociety.org/commentary/comm ... omanticism
...which doesn't show how exactly Rand was inspired by Hugo but does explain a little bit of her understandings of him.

*EDIT* damn...accidentally deleted part of my original post while removing the additional remark about "The man who laughs" (which is now in a new thread) :oops: :oops:
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