Is Marius a Gary-Stu?

Any discussion related to Victor's Hugo's Les Misérables, in any language.
Christian_is_the_Lawr
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Postby Christian_is_the_Lawr » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:24 pm

Llosa captures him right. Maybe all the others are too perfect. Marius is like a common boy: he's not too brave, but he can be heroic sometimes; he's shy and his ideas are annoying, but that's because he was raised by a stupid hypocrite virgin. Even after his big "Napoleon rocks" enlightement he can't totally change.
If his mother lived. Or if his granddad wouldn't keep him away from the colonel...
Ifs. :D

I wouldn't say he's a Stu; he isn't perfect, and isn't loved by everyone. Maybe the reason he survives is that he isn't a real hero. All the others die for ideals, for love or for honor. Marius is like a Werther who gets the girl.
Gods of war I call you
My sword is by my side
I seek a life of honor
Free from all false pride
I will crack the whip
With a bold mighty hail
Cover me with death
If I should ever fail
Glory, majesty, unity
Hail! Hail! Hail!

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bigR
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Postby bigR » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:37 pm

Christian_is_the_Lawr wrote:he's shy and his ideas are annoying, but that's because he was raised by a stupid hypocrite virgin.


Marius is raised aswell by a witty, saucy, fun and loving grandfather (even if he wasn't the demonstrative type) and Colonel Pontmercy doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
Marius and Guillenormand clash of personalities is actually nothing else but an instrument for Hugo to illustrate the clash between the old not-so-moral and superficial 18th century way of living and romantic sensibility. Marius is the way he is because he is a romantic cliché with legs :-)



Christian_is_the_Lawr wrote: I wouldn't say he's a Stu; he isn't perfect, and isn't loved by everyone. Maybe the reason he survives is that he isn't a real hero. All the others die for ideals, for love or for honor. Marius is like a Werther who gets the girl.


Seriously, make him take a Litmus test as if you were Hugo.
From the very first questions you can see that something isn't right:

-Is the character named after you (this includes your first, middle, and last names, and any nicknames or online names you use)?

-Does the character's name describe her/his personality?
IL N' Y A QUE LE RIDICULE QUI TUE

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Euphrasie
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Postby Euphrasie » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:47 pm

bigR wrote:
Christian_is_the_Lawr wrote:he's shy and his ideas are annoying, but that's because he was raised by a stupid hypocrite virgin.

Colonel Pontmercy doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb in the chandelier.


What? :cry: Colonel Pontmercy was awesome!

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lesmisloony
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Postby lesmisloony » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:04 pm

I love him, but I can see how he might have been a bit, well, slow...
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Postby K. von Dork » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:10 pm

Maybe...but oh gosh, I love that little dolt. <3

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Acros the Stars
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Postby Acros the Stars » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:12 pm

He's...oh, well, he's cute. Like a little puppy dog that doesn't realize that he'll never be able to catch his tail. :lol:
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Schmerg_The_Impaler
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Postby Schmerg_The_Impaler » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:39 pm

Gillenormand: Why don't you just make her your mistress?
Marius: OMG U DID NOT JUST SAY THAT WTF. I AM DE-FRIENDING YOU!

*Dead*

BigR, you make an interesting point about the Litmus test. Because a huge number of classic literary characters fail it. I think what most makes modern characters Sues is that they try to emulate the characters in the classics, but whereas characters in the classics are usually more symbols of certain character traits than people, fanfic writers try to put their Sues into modern situations with modern dialogue, and it doesn't work. Imagine a character like Enjolras-- who I don't like much anyway-- in a modern-day story. He'd be... he'd be freakin' Edward Cullen, before meeting Bella. And we all know Ed's a Sue.
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Postby Lady Therine » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:50 am

Schmerg_The_Impaler wrote:I think what most makes modern characters Sues is that they try to emulate the characters in the classics, but whereas characters in the classics are usually more symbols of certain character traits than people, fanfic writers try to put their Sues into modern situations with modern dialogue, and it doesn't work.


I agree; isn't that sad? Modern writers never seem to write characters as anything but a person, none of them can be - like any of the Les Mis characters - a symbol for something greater than man.

Imagine a character like Enjolras-- who I don't like much anyway-- in a modern-day story. He'd be... he'd be freakin' Edward Cullen, before meeting Bella. And we all know Ed's a Sue.


Yes, I mean, Enjolras is like Liberty in the picture of Liberty Leading the People. But, without his ideals, he’d just be a pretty face. Great, now I'm sad at the loss of the art of symbolic writing. Whatever is wrong with the world when books like Twilight are topping our best-seller list (I do not like Twilight in anyway and I've read the first two books in the series. But, that's another issue).

To get back on topic, I don't really that that Marius can be considered a Gary-Stu because he was written in a time period long before that sort of thing came about. But is he a self-insert? Yes, like you guys said. So.. uh... I guess that I'm just agreeing with mostly everyone else.
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Medicine for your daughter~2 gold Napoleons and your teeth
A mother’s love~priceless
There are some things money can’t buy: for everything else, read Les Misérables.

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Postby Christian_is_the_Lawr » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:57 am

What's this Twilight thing? I often see young girls drooling over it, but for me, vampire stories begin and end with the classic Dracula/Nosferatu.


Most Mizzies would have problems in a modern book. But I'm sure Valjean, Javert or Fantine could adapt to our era.
Gods of war I call you
My sword is by my side
I seek a life of honor
Free from all false pride
I will crack the whip
With a bold mighty hail
Cover me with death
If I should ever fail
Glory, majesty, unity
Hail! Hail! Hail!

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Schmerg_The_Impaler
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Postby Schmerg_The_Impaler » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:18 am

BOY DO I EVER HATE MARIUS
I am playing the Queen of France right now in a play. Try not to decapitate me.

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MmeJavert
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Postby MmeJavert » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:50 am

If you're going for April Foolery, Schmerg, it's failing really hard.
and to this day, she's glided on
always home but so far away
like a word misplaced
nothing said, what a waste

~pearl jam, "dissident"

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Schmerg_The_Impaler
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Postby Schmerg_The_Impaler » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:11 pm

For April Fool's Day I was doing opposite day-- in multiple aspects of my life. I was in an extremely silly mood, and I'm done.

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Postby Frédéric Dumont » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:24 am

Yeah, that was so not you. :lol:

Twilight = avoid at all costs, apparently. From what I've been told, they have those cliché sad and misunderstood vampires. And they SPARKLE. :shock:
I prefer vampires who have the balls to be bad. :twisted: (I kinda see it like my sister there, who once said this memorable thing: "I used to like Lestat when he still was a complete arsehole" :lol: )
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Postby Christian_is_the_Lawr » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:43 am

SPARKLE?! Dracula is turning in his coffin! Not to mention Cain's children, who are the real badass vampires.
I love vampires when they're evil, not fanfic!Eppie-turned-into-a-vampire.
Gods of war I call you
My sword is by my side
I seek a life of honor
Free from all false pride
I will crack the whip
With a bold mighty hail
Cover me with death
If I should ever fail
Glory, majesty, unity
Hail! Hail! Hail!

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Frédéric Dumont
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Postby Frédéric Dumont » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:44 am

Yeah, let's get ourselves "REAL VAMPIRES ARE EVIL" T-shirts. :wink:
That's why I like the vampires in Buffy, they really ARE bad (and even Angel with a soul can be bad - see especially "Reunion" and "Redefinition" for reference :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ). And I like how they poke fun at "the Anne Rice routine". :lol:

Where are Cain's children from?
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THE BLOOD OF THE SPAMBOTS SHALL WATER THE MEADOWS OF FRANCE!!!


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