One Thing

Any discussion related to Victor's Hugo's Les Misérables, in any language.
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Rachelle
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Re: One Thing

Postby Rachelle » Thu May 09, 2013 3:15 pm

Could rabbit be described as a cynic?
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Mademoiselle Mabeuf
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Re: One Thing

Postby Mademoiselle Mabeuf » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:54 am

I feel like Enjolras would be Rabbit...but then who would be Christopher Robin? Hm...
"He never left home without a book under his arm, and often returned with two..."
^Victor Hugo on my life.
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Gervais
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Re: One Thing

Postby Gervais » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:46 pm

I don't know about Enjolras as Rabbit. Rabbit's clever, but I don't see him as Enjolras. How about him as Christopher Robin, then? :lol:



Somewhat on topic: Marjolras. Don't think I've seen it much in fanfic, actually, though I have seen some Marii that act a heck of a lot like Enjolras.
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Re: One Thing

Postby Rachel » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:09 am

Evil!Cosette and people who ignore Bahorel's existence bother me. Also, the Courfeyracs who don't care about the revolution or his friends, just about bedding as many people as humanly possible.
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deHavilland
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Re: One Thing

Postby deHavilland » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:03 am

As much as I'm not a fan of it, I'll give the movie credit for reintroducing Bahorel to fandom. I'm noticing more and more that he's anchored himself more solidly in mainstream fic. I mean, he was always there in the more Brick-based works, but now your average fic featuring Les Amis has him actually doing things, modern-verse fics included.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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CeridwenLynne
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Re: One Thing

Postby CeridwenLynne » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:29 pm

There are a couple of things that really annoy me:

1. The people who say Javert is an evil villain. He is definitely not evil. He is harsh and judgemental believing that the law is the only thing right in the world but he is not a bad man. I want to tell anyone who insists he is evil to listen to the words of Stars. These are not the words of a wicked person. Yes, he is an antagonist to Valjean but not the sadistic villain some people make him out to be.

2. The people who see Grantaire as only a drunkard. He is so much more than that.
" He makes no vain sacrifice who fights for a cause. All here are ready to die so that our brothers may live as free men. Liberty... sweet liberty... come fight with those who defend you." ----Enjolras.

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LauraLeZunzu
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Re: One Thing

Postby LauraLeZunzu » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:23 pm

All the ships non-brick fandom does- Enjolras with Éponine? They would barely understand each other, and they wouldn't ever meet... But the one I don't like at all is Grantaire/Enjolras, just because it is the most supported. C'mon, Enjolras is assexual, if you read the brick, you know it. And concerning to Grantaire, I understand people can think differently about that- but I believe in friendship and admiration so much, I attributed that to the R's sacrifice; his ideal was Enjolras, but as an idea, or maybe an idealised friendship (more the ideal), and Enjolras accepts it because that means he believes in something. I can't stand when romantic love takes it all and it can't be idealism or friendship- like if everything beautiful had to be romantic love and that's the only strength enough. :| All of that, and that Hugo says he's an ugly womanizer (ok, just says R says it).
Aaand I don't like at all that Marius is revolutionaire (I guess this is musical fault, as there is not much of that in the fandom).
But I think I should be less purist of the brick haha
CeridwenLynne wrote:There are a couple of things that really annoy me:

1. The people who say Javert is an evil villain. He is definitely not evil. He is harsh and judgemental believing that the law is the only thing right in the world but he is not a bad man. I want to tell anyone who insists he is evil to listen to the words of Stars. These are not the words of a wicked person. Yes, he is an antagonist to Valjean but not the sadistic villain some people make him out to be.

2. The people who see Grantaire as only a drunkard. He is so much more than that.

Totally agree with both. Adding to R, if you read his speeches you can't say he is only a drunkard.
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Acaila
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Re: One Thing

Postby Acaila » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:54 am

LauraLeZunzu wrote:C'mon, Enjolras is assexual, if you read the brick, you know it.


Well, not quite. Hugo never actually comes out and says he's asexual, he says he's "chaste". That's not the same thing. It's perfectly valid to interpret him as asexual based on clues like that, but equally there are clues that people interpret to suggest he's gay and that's perfectly valid too. The Brick doesn't tell us anything for sure.
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deHavilland
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Re: One Thing

Postby deHavilland » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:34 pm

Also, I think it's a little unfair to refer to Enjolras/Éponine as a ship that can only be attributed to non-brick fandom, as though a) those who haven't read the brick are inferior and b) those who have read the brick would never ship them. I find that the easiest road to conflict in this fandom is to make a generalized statement like that. Similar to, as Acaila said, pointing out that Enjolras is definitively asexual. While it's possible, there's just as much evidence in the text to say otherwise, so it's always better to say "I prefer to think of Enjolras as asexual" than "Enjolras is asexual."

Probably if everyone behaved like this, we could cut the number of shipping and canon wars in half.
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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LauraLeZunzu
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Re: One Thing

Postby LauraLeZunzu » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:43 pm

As it is a fantastic book it can have different views, but...
I took my conclusion because of phrases like:
"He put down his eyes in front of whatever wasn't the republic"
"Enjolras has no lover [...] hear him murmure "Patria""
"He kissed again the hand of Mr Mabeuf. Those were the only two kisses he ever gave"
"Whoever girl, if they would have tried to look into his eyes, they would have drop into the infinite-the infinite o the eternal"
(Sorry, translation from spanish translation haha)
I think the last phrase could be applied not only to girls, because it talks about the infinite of Enjolras. And in the first phrase, it says "whatever", not girls...
But I know it can be different points of view, that's just mine :roll:
Last edited by LauraLeZunzu on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gervais
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Re: One Thing

Postby Gervais » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:13 pm

It's just, well, while people can use that to say he's asexual (my own headcanon for him is actually demisexual), people can and have made good arguments for him as homosexual and other orientations, directly from the book. One can be a book purist and not think Enjolras is asexual.
[Drops subject quickly on its head in a forest filled with hungry wolves]

Okay, why does the fandom look at Bossuet like a clumsy dolt? I'm guilty of this in the one fic I have with him in it, I'll admit, but playing around with a cane is different from tripping every five seconds (okay, fanon hasn't gotten that bad, that I've seen, but it's enough to be annoying).

(Though, I am happy now since most of my dashboard is now rather lovely meta, research, good fan art, or good crack ideas. :D)
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deHavilland
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Re: One Thing

Postby deHavilland » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:27 pm

I think because the easiest way to show Bossuet as being unlucky is to make him clumsy. Like, unlucky you didn't see that chair there, Bossuet, and so you tripped over it. The brick supports a clumsy interpretation to a point, though:

He possessed knowledge and wit, but all he did miscarried. Everything failed him and everybody deceived him; what he was building tumbled down on top of him. If he were splitting wood, he cut off a finger.


Personally, I don't think that means he's clumsy so much as that Hugo was making a point to say that every endeavor he embarked upon failed him in some way. So if he makes a land speculation; he loses all his money when the land turns out to not be arable. If he tried to do something as simple as splitting wood, he cut off a finger, because that's the easiest way to fail at splitting wood. But if you choose to look at that sentence point blank, then yeah, it might read as "he's so clumsy he'd cut off a finger chopping wood."
"Quand vous aurez besoin de Bahorel, capitaine, Bahorel est là! Je sais faire trébucher tous les chevaux du garde-corps avec une ficelle... Rien qu'une petite ficelle. Enfin, pensez à Bahorel du Café Musain!"

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CeridwenLynne
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Re: One Thing

Postby CeridwenLynne » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:58 pm

One think that annoys me is those who say an E/E ship is homophobic or gay erasure. If E/E is gay erasure then a Combeferre/ Joly ship must be straight erasure. :wink:

JK. My point is that I wish all of fandom could just let everyone ship who they want in peace. I think we do a fantastic job of that here and I wish the other sites would do so as well.
" He makes no vain sacrifice who fights for a cause. All here are ready to die so that our brothers may live as free men. Liberty... sweet liberty... come fight with those who defend you." ----Enjolras.


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