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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:25 pm
by Gervais
*bows*

I also found this, if anyone wants a quick intro to Monomyth: http://www.mentalfloss.com/article/5145 ... ppet-style
Though the puppets are a bit disturbing.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:44 am
by YoungStudentMarius
It's certainly funny, though, and actually pretty good. :lol: Though I'm with you on that count.

So, I was in a bookstore a while ago, and found this. I only barely got to scan it briefly, but it looks really, really cool, and even though I think the archetypes are supposed to be for real life, more identifying roles and personalities of the people around you, it would definitely be worth looking into, I think, as the list is a lot more extensive than most of the other literary ones we find. It has a really cool section of cards you can tear out, too, with the name of the archetype and a brief description, and some colorful artwork, that is, if you buy the hard copy. But I'll definitely be spending some time in the store with this one, and there's at least snippets you can read online.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:56 am
by Gervais
It's shiny. :mrgreen:

*reads official description* Marius, I think we're both going into the wrong fields. What we need to do is advertising. We're getting enough info for it And also, apparently we're strategists if we're reading that--just read the subtitle--so that Risk game is now officially Going to Happen. *nod* :wink: Thanks for the link, though; I might have to look for this in the bookstore now. :mrgreen:

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:37 pm
by YoungStudentMarius
True, maybe...maybe that could be true. Though you and I in advertising would be quite a pair. :lol: And hooray for the Risk game! :mrgreen: And sure; I'll probably flip through it next time I walk over, too, and I'll see if I can tell you what I find.

All right, so I ran into a really cool (monomyth, actually; yay, relevance! :wink: ) quote, and I thought it needed a little more discussion:
Joseph Campbell wrote:A hero is someone who has given his or her life to something bigger than oneself.

By that definition, I think that nearly everyone in Les Mis, or at least, you know, the majority of main characters, would be considered heroes, actually, which is something really interesting to look at, even if they don't each go on their individual, perfectly-structured Journeys.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:02 pm
by Gervais
I'm still in the preface. :oops: Had to finish a library book first, see.

I wonder how many characters actually would fit the Hero's Journey. Just for fun, I was going to try Fantine, but I didn't know whether her Normal would be before or after meeting Tholomyes, and really, I don't think she'd have most of it.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:02 pm
by YoungStudentMarius
Me, too, actually. :oops: I really just came across the quote randomly, in someone's slide show. So we're even. :wink:

Yeah, I think parts of Fantine could work, but the majority of it probably wouldn't. Though yes, let's go through the others and figure them out! :mrgreen: One person who works pretty darn well, though I don't think anyone fits as well as Marius, is Valjean. :mrgreen: Separation from the family at a young age, and then the Bishop is his mentor, and the candlesticks are the talisman, and lots more fits, too.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:38 pm
by Rachel
I don't we know enough about them to know. I'm sure Enjolras had a journey, but we don't know enough to know for sure.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:15 pm
by Gervais
*sigh of relief* Whoo. :D Though even the preface is good stuff.

Rachel wrote:I don't we know enough about them to know. I'm sure Enjolras had a journey, but we don't know enough to know for sure.

That's good to keep in mind when you're thinking about a character's backstory for fic or even just a headcanon, really. It would be easy to say "Oh, X always did Y, it's just how he is" but using at least parts of the monomyth put into his backstory would help make him just...more believable, to be honest, which is part of the point of archetypes I guess.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:51 pm
by between4walls
Speaking of Marius, I saw a good tumblr post explaining why his politics are less contradictory than they appear at first glance.

Important bits:

"The thing is, Marius’s identification of Napoleon with the Revolution and therefore with the Republic is not particularly contradictory, especially not when you think about it from the point of view of one of Napoleon’s soldiers...This is especially true because of the relative continuity of conscription, and the identification of people who were called up by those continual drafts with those involved in the levee en masse....The association of Waterloo and the Hundred Days with the levee en masse does not just exist in Hugo – Hugo was only employing a well recognized kinship. That association existed in radical republican, Bounapartist, and right wing rhetoric, with different glosses depending on the perspective of the rhetorician. Marius would probably have encountered it even before he began his reading binge, in the same way he would have encountered the image of Napoleon as tyrant. That image is as much or more a far right wing one as it is a left wing one, and for Marius to accept his father, he would have to reject it, and the image of the levee en masse as a horrible amorphous mass, distorted and degenerate. "

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:40 pm
by humanracer
Gervais wrote:*bows*

I also found this, if anyone wants a quick intro to Monomyth: http://www.mentalfloss.com/article/5145 ... ppet-style
Though the puppets are a bit disturbing.

Had never heard of Monomyth before so thanks. The first thing that comes to mind though is Luke Skywalker.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:47 pm
by Acaila
Skywalker is a pretty famously clearcut example, but it crops up everywhere and in everything.

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:57 pm
by Rachel
Everything from Harry Potter to Hercules, right?

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:02 am
by Gervais
Rachel wrote:Everything from Harry Potter to Hercules, right?

Yep. The point of identifying archetypes. :mrgreen:

Ooh, I've seen that post, b4w, and like it a lot, especially since I didn't quite understand how he fit as any sort of republican. :D

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:30 am
by YoungStudentMarius
Exactly, yes, pretty much everything. :mrgreen: Which is why I now have a slight obsession with it. Hercules for certain; it was the myths that started most of it, in a sense, and yes, Skywalker for sure, and I love Star Wars for it. It's so clearcut, it's hardly even funny, with even things like the Visit to Death, and all. But that's another story, sorry.

And thank you, b4w; that's really interesting, and helps to understand it much better. :D

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:02 pm
by Gervais
Rachel wrote:I don't we know enough about them to know. I'm sure Enjolras had a journey, but we don't know enough to know for sure.

Just for the sake of keeping everything together, Mlle Patria's study of Enjolras as a Christ-figure: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2669