Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Any discussion related to Victor's Hugo's Les Misérables, in any language.
User avatar
YoungStudentMarius
Posts: 8158
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am
Location: In the library

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:35 am

Ah, but Gervais, there'd be no use finding them if there was no one to share and analyze them with. :mrgreen:

She was, wasn't she? Poor girl, what with the black eye, and all...
...And you're right! And that's pretty much the whole book, too, Light vs Darkness. :mrgreen:

Hey, you're right about that, AJ; both of those could work. :D Poor Grantaire.

All right, so my current project has been trying to find all the different types of plot diagrams that exist. I know there have to be some, because there's the monomyth one, that's the circle, and I saw a "W" one, once, but all that seems to be coming up is just the normal Mountain one. :( Anyone know of other types of plot diagrams out there?
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:39 am

WhoIam wrote:
The Warrior/Protector – The original “knight in shining armor”, the warrior is always ready to fight to defend honor, his country, and the helpless. He is chivalrous, an expert in protocol and handy with a sword. In the modern day he may also be handy with technology/computers. (Neo, Sir Percival)


Just because he reminds me of Hugo's description of Courfeyrac.

The Rebel – Reckless and fearless, this is what happens when the fool grows up. Once believing in great ideas, he finds that the world is corrupt or uncaring and turns bitter. He is violent, strong and usually in the wrong, but savvy and smart. Sometimes he rebels against something in particular, but most of the time he rebels against everything. Sometimes in literature he will have a loyal streak, still hanging on to the remnants of his old life. (Dallas Winston)


And I think this one applies to Grantaire, somewhat. Apparently he's in the "bad" category though... :(

The first one fits Courfeyrac so well. :shock: The one for Grantaire can probably bend according to headcanon, but it fits, too.


Also: This is more for 2012 film than the book, but the Mountains description compared to Valjean's journey to the Bishop is making me very happy.

I'll start looking, Marius, though I haven't really seen any.

Edit: Not really what you're looking for, but Kurt Vonnegut's Ill Fortune-Bad Fortune charts are interesting: http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/voices- ... p?page=all
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

User avatar
YoungStudentMarius
Posts: 8158
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am
Location: In the library

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:47 am

Oh, Gervais, I hadn't even thought about that. :shock: That definitely works, so well. I hadn't even thought about all the implications of a mountain.

Aha! One awesome source, here! :mrgreen: http://www.skotos.net/articles/PlotStrategies.html
So maybe more than four don't exist. :? That's a shame. But I'll keep looking.
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:58 am

:mrgreen: That, that is awesome. I'll keep an eye out, too, though I doubt there are many more than those.
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

User avatar
YoungStudentMarius
Posts: 8158
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am
Location: In the library

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:01 am

No, no, wait, jackpot; there are! :mrgreen:

Look, look, look! *is disproportionately excited* http://ingridsnotes.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/figure-6_alt-plot-structures.jpg

And whoa....Freytag's Pyramid came from something called the Fichtean Curve. :shock: :mrgreen:

*source*
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:09 am

Jackpot is right. :shock: :mrgreen: Image

So I guess Modulated Plot and Open Plot would be for Choose Your Own Adventure stuff? I didn't know people diagramed those. :shock: :mrgreen: But there are more than four! There are more than four! Ms. Next-Teacher, if you insist there are only four that have existed, or less, look at that!
*is also disproportionately excited and should probably go to bed*
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

User avatar
YoungStudentMarius
Posts: 8158
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am
Location: In the library

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:14 am

Yay for plots and dancing bunnies! :mrgreen:

Yeah, probably. Or even like...the curses of reality television, and the like. >shudder< Technically, I suppose they have a plot, or at least a plot-ish thing, and it'd probably be one of those.

Yes. :twisted: Yes, you tell your teacher, next time they try any of that. And I'll keep that in mind for mine, too. I tried to tell one of my teachers once, when we were preparing for our final, and the review had the diagram I posted on the first page on it, that I had made it so that if you google image "Marius Pontmercy stage," it comes up with the Hero's Journey plot diagram, because that's just awesome.

But ahhh, it's so cool! :mrgreen:

Gervais, I think I'm drunk on plot structure and symbolism.
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.

Rachel
Posts: 2055
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:57 am

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Rachel » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:16 am

This thread is back! It's possibly the most interesting thread I've seen in a while, and that is saying something. So hooray!

I don't have much to add, just wanted to say that you guys are the best for reviving this.
Image

Clearly, I have fantastic luck in the dating field.

Quotes to live by:
"This is highly illegal!" ~Inspector Javert (The Girl Nextdoor)

révolutionnaire
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:02 am

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby révolutionnaire » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:51 pm

Have to agree with Rachel, this stuff is fascinating.

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:15 am

Glad you two like it, and feel free to join in! :mrgreen:

Drunk on symbolism? Cool. :mrgreen: I may be joining you, who knows. So that's why you're driving so slowly and making me late!

Could this work for comparing Myriel to other clergy?
. Innate Wisdom vs. Educated Stupidity – Some characters exhibit wisdom and understanding intuitively as opposed to those supposedly in charge.
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

User avatar
YoungStudentMarius
Posts: 8158
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am
Location: In the library

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:21 am

Glad you like it as well! It's a....hobby, of ours. Perhaps more than it should be. :oops: Hobby-careened-out-of-control. But it's so fun. :mrgreen:

Gervais, that's perfect! :shock: So true.

Sounds like a good plan. :wink: Oh, hush; that's not my fault. Blame symbolism. And at least we're late together.

Bad thing is, though, after doing a bit more in-deph research on some of those plots, a couple of them don't seem to be documented outside that picture, at least not under the given names. :? Or google hates me. Either way, it's the strangest thing.
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:25 am

Hobby on steroids. We get the steroids out of juice boxes.

..,Maybe we should keep Courfeyrac away from symbolism. 'Cus, you know.

I wouldn't be surprised if the poster came up with the chart themself, but they do happen in books. So while the...officialness? Of some of them is iffy, I'd agree that they exist, like the Reality Show and Choose Your Own Adventure ones we talked about.
Though, wait, there is credit given for each of the pictures. So if I can get google to cooperate, where they come from should show up.
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

User avatar
YoungStudentMarius
Posts: 8158
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am
Location: In the library

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:32 am

Yes, yes, yes we do! :mrgreen: Word enthusiasts, we are. :wink:

That's probably actually a good idea. And Typo, too, likely enough.

I know! And yeah, I searched the guy's name, for the "petal plot" one specifically, and there's nothing that comes up, and it's the most exasperating thing, because he has to have written something; he's credited as a source! If you can find something, you'll have my gratitude, but I'm almost not expecting things to turn up, at this point. :?
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:38 am

We just need to put a bolt on the. symbolism cabinet, then. Typo's bad enough sober.

I'm thinking two options at this point: either the sources are made up, or they're out of books that haven't been put online or are out of print or obscure or any combo of the above. I'm almost certain they're not off of any other website at this point.
Edit: Wait, wait, there's a bibliography! Hold on a sec, I'll be back as soon as I take a good look at it.
Edit Again: Here's the full bibliography: http://ingridsnotes.wordpress.com/2011/ ... ilography/

And here you go: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jparise/research ... structure/
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

User avatar
YoungStudentMarius
Posts: 8158
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am
Location: In the library

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:16 am

:shock: *jaw drop* You found it.

*running tackle-glomp!* :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'd found the bibliography, too, and gotten absolutely nowhere, so...ah, fantastic; thanks a lot, Gervais! That is awesome. I will certainly be perusing that. And I'll let you know what I find. *salutes* Though you've probably already looked through it.

I still can't believe you found that. :mrgreen:

And yet I'm not sure why I'm surprised. :wink:
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.


Return to “The Brick”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest