Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Any discussion related to Victor's Hugo's Les Misérables, in any language.
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YoungStudentMarius
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Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:09 pm

I was in English class the other day when my English teacher mentioned that we'd be starting a new project, on Joseph Campbell's monomyth/heroic journey. She gave out a packet and such with a condensed version of the steps, and told us to look through them and think of a character we knew that experienced a heroic journey, because we would have to write a first person narrative explaining their journey the next week. Naturally, I was going through LM characters out of habit, mostly for the purpose of checking them off, because I was pretty sure I couldn't sneak one in. And then I came to Marius, and stopped short. He fits perfectly, in virtually every single respect. Everything. It's all in there; it all works, completely, and it's a pretty perfect representation of the hero's journey, at least in a variant form. Has anyone else noticed this before? Here, take a look:

BIRTH/CHILDHOOD: The story starts off with the hero's birth, often under unusual circumstances, and typically the mother dies shortly after. Check. The hero, often born into royalty (a baron, in this case), is separated from/loses his father and grows up away from his family, with no or limited knowledge of his parents or title. (Insert noisy grandfather here). Often an uncomfortable or unhappy childhood spent with people who don't understand the hero.

CALL TO ADVENTURE: The story then skips straight to the hero as a young adult. Life is relatively boring, and then some event (in this case, the death of his father) calls the hero out of the life he's leading. The comes the Refusal of the Call. "Often when the call is given, the future hero first refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances." Or perhaps noisy grandfathers. Check.

LEARNING THE TRUTH/MEETING THE MENTOR: The hero discovers the truth about his past, and his true birth. He meets a mentor, usually an old man (M. Mabeuf, in this case), who is often the one to reveal this truth, or at least to teach him, train him, and guide him along it. Usually the mentor gives the hero a protective item or talisman, often something only the hero can wield, to help him with his journey. (I wondered about this, but I came to the conclusion that Marius' talisman would be the title given to him by his father, and which he first took notice of after meeting M. Mabeuf, so that makes sense, doesn't it? Especially because it is specific to him).

CROSSING THE THRESHOLD: A new development requires the hero to make a choice whether to go forward or stay back, and he must undergo a trial, which causes him to leave his familiar world and enter into the unknown. The most important part is said to be the contrast between the two worlds. (This would be Marius choosing to defend his father in the presence of his grandfather, and then being banished, entering alone into an entirely different life).

TESTS/ALLIES/ENEMIES: The hero experiences the unknown of adventure, and endures many trials in a sort of dream-like environment. The trials get larger as time passes, and the opponents, though removed, become more and more threatening, and sharpen the hero's abilities. The hero is often helped along the way by others, whether or not he is aware of it. (So, you could say poverty itself at first, and then climbing challenges to perhaps the Gorbeau house incident at this stage). The hero meets friends and allies who help him (like Courfeyrac and Lesgles and les amis), enemies (as removed as poverty, perhaps, or as blurred as Thenardier) and also a trickster. The trickster (which would undoubtably be Éponine) can either be a friend or an enemy, or something of both. "In any role, the trickster usually represents the force of cunning, and is pitted against opponents who are stronger or more powerful." Whose side the Trickster is actually on is often blurred and difficult to determine.

APPROACH AND PREPARATION: "Each successful test further proves the hero's ability and advances the journey towards its climax." There is usually a "queen, goddess, prophetess, or protector" (Cosette) near this stage. "The hero encounters a figure or situation that represents all that the ordinary man/woman can conceive of human happiness," "for she is the incarnation of the promise of perfection; the soul’s assurance that, at the conclusion of its exile in a world of organized inadequacies, the bliss that once was known will be known again: the comforting, the nourishing, the ‘good’ mother…" This being sometimes distracts the hero temporarily from the journey.

THE ORDEAL/CLIMAX/FINAL BATTLE: This is the height of the action in the hero's journey, where the hero enters into a hellish nightmare world and is involved in a large or important battle; the resolution, of sorts, to the adventure. (This would obviously be the barricades). He shows courage and uses what he's learned on the journey so far to help him in the battle. Also, the mentor usually dies before the hero enters into the battle, often directly before. (M. Mabeuf raising the flag). The hero is also usually wounded. Very wounded. Check...

ROAD BACK OR RETURN (aka the CHASE SCENE): The hero returns from the ordeal in a hasty flight, headed towards home with the boon, which is knowledge, an object, or something that symbolizes his original quest. (For my paper, I maintained that the boon for Marius was bringing all elements of his family, specifically Jean Valjean, his grandfather, and his father, to peace and rest by taking care of Cosette, and ultimately discovering his own identity and place in society). This step is sometimes involved with the Rescue From Without, where the hero must be brought back home by someone else, as he is not strong enough to be capable of making the return journey. (Jean Valjean and the sewer expedition, of course). Often the hero and rescuer are pursued (Javert and the search parties, and perhaps even Thenardier could figure into this element).

RESURRECTION/ABYSS: The hero dies or almost dies. ("Marius Produces to Someone Who Is a Judge of the Matter, the Effect of Being Dead"). The hero experiences death for quite a while, and whether or not he will survive is seriously in question. (Marius for quite a long time... delirious... raving... wounded... on the brink of death... unconscious... check...) Then the hero awakens or recovers, re-entering the world of the living. (...and then he opens his eyes and M. Gillenormand goes nuts. Again).

REWARD OR APOTHEOSIS: The hero prepares to return to the everyday world, and receives a reward for his hardships. The hero is also a different person from when he started out. (Cosette and a new life with his newfound family, as well as the inheritance Jean Valjean supplied, and finding his place in society). Somewhere along these steps there is a reconciliation with the father (or grandfather, as the case may be). Also, the hero may be tempted not to return to the place he had left before (hence Marius' initial aversion to being back with his grandfather), but is persuaded.

RETURN: The hero returns to society with his boon, crossing the same threshold again, completing his circle of adventure. He returns to the same place, but finds it changed, partly because he himself has changed. "A new equilibrium," in typical story structure. He can use the knowledge he acquired on his journey to help others and define his place in society. (Marius returns to his grandfather's house, the same place he left, but finds the environment and circumstances there very different. He brings peace to his family there, and takes his place in life with Cosette, continuing the legacies of his father, grandfather, Fantine, and Jean Valjean). Now, the hero can belong in the worlds he seemed caught between before, and can live freely in his place.

Image


So, that's a take on the typical monomyth. Joseph Campbell's version has 17 steps, actually, and in a slightly different order, but the general format remains the same, and the one for Marius actually borrows a few elements from traditional story structure and the plot diagram. It matches up, though. I pulled out my old notes on story structure from years ago, and found that they, too, agreed, specifying such things as a "physical, literal journey that shows growth and change in the hero," an "archetypal character," "destiny and purpose," "broken-up and often impersonal opposition," "discovering his own identity," "self-revelation," etc.
There have been many different versions and steps of the monomyth over time, and considering that Les Mis was written before Joseph Campbell derived these steps tells you something about Victor Hugo's familiarity with structure as well as inspiration. It also makes me wonder what other types of story structure or character archetypes he employed, or who else he wrote to undertake a similar journey. It really is an interesting world, isn't it, where we can have so many different things that all work off of the same patterns? You often don't even notice them. And somehow, no matter how you put it, life's never really the same twice.
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Enjolvert » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:07 pm

Always interesting to look at the roles of different characters in it. I've always felt Marius is underestimated as a hero. He follows the path of a hero, but his character isn't always typical of one in many ways.

Valjean could also partly fit the bill for a hero too. The mentor could be seen as the bishop, his tests include when he has to run as mayor, when he goes to the barricade, while Javert could be seen as both his enemy and trickster to an extent. Thenardier would be another enemy, while Cosette could be viewed as his main ally. He's not as strong as Marius for this one but he still fits to an extent.

It's always interesting to look at the different ways you can see characters. Javert could be easily seen as a tragic hero in another perspective for example; he dies at the end of his story due to a fatal flaw, which is typical of a tragic hero. Enjolras is another one who could perhaps be seen as a tragic hero as well, due to him dying and if you want to see it that way, his commitment and obsession with the republic and revolution perhaps being his flaw in a way.

Good discussion though.
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:38 pm

I agree. Marius isn't perfect, and he's a lot more "human" than some of the others. Why I didn't realize earlier that that was a huge indication of an archetype, I'll never know...
Even if his character is very different. One thing that it didn't necessarily follow was that in a monomyth, the hero is usually a great warrior. In this one...not so much. But that just makes it all the more interesting, because it shows, I guess you could say, that you don't really need to be a certain way to be a hero, and character types aren't all the same for their similarities.

I definitely agree on Valjean. In fact, after hearing me choose Marius, the boy next to me, who has never read the Brick, decided to take Valjean. :roll: It really is the same in a lot of respects though, not perfect, but it works, just not as uncannily as Marius does. More of his tests would be revealing himself to save Champmathieu, rescuing Fantine, the flight from Javert with Cosette, and both Gorbeau house incidents, actually. His ordeal could be the journey with Marius through the sewers. His death/rebirth would tie in with the reward/apotheosis, because Valjean literally dies, and his reward would be heaven. There's a lot of missing elements, but it's an interesting character study for sure. Valjean is easier in one respect, though: he is present throughout the whole book, whereas Marius isn't even introduced until over a third of the way in.

Yeah, and if you look at all the Greek tragedies, they all die. Sometimes, too, it's because they can no longer live with themselves and what they've done, or because their life/beliefs have been shattered. Or dying for something greater, like revenge or destiny, fate or their country. Wait...Huh. That'd be interesting. You know, he did talk about Orestes & Pylades and such...Hmm...I wonder...I'll have to look into that. I know there were several types of stories and characters in Greek theatre, and Enjolras was compared to Apollo, and I could just see Hugo basing him off something like that. I'll definitely be researching that theory. For both Enjolras and Javert.

And I know Cosette follows some character picture/theme/type or another, I can tell she does, I just can't figure out exactly what it is.

Thanks for listening and responding, though. It's been too slow here in the Brick forum.
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Enjolvert » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:49 pm

Yeah, I agree with you on Marius. I've always thought that he's a well written, realistic character who's not your typical hero in many ways. He also develops throughout the book though. His arrival on the barricade, after Mabeuf dies of course, is like that of a typical hero in many ways, coming in and virtually saving the day for them.

I agree that Valjean's probably the more popular one, especially for those who have only seen the musical because he's basically the main character. In the brick though, while he's still the main character, I almost get the impression that when he's introduced, it almost drifts towards Marius becoming the main character. He's not there for the first half pretty much, but is then so important afterwards. Fantine and Cosette have their own volumes, but Valjean's still the one who features most in them. With Marius' volume though, it's largely about him and he's the central character of it. From his introduction to the end, he's probably nearly got as much, if not as much as or more, page time than Valjean, if that makes sense.

The whole greek tragedies thing is interesting too. We've been studying a modern day one by Arthur Miller where the main character is a tragic hero. It's in a relatively modern setting of course but goes in much the same way as your typical Greek one. It makes me think of how many characters in different works can be viewed as tragic heroes to an extent; ones you'd never think of. Basically, any character who dies in tragic, or even sad, circumstances to an extent, can almost be viewed as a tragic hero. There's so many you can look at. And then there's the character of a tragic hero. Usually, you have to be able to sympathise with them on one hand but in some cases, moreso Javert if we're talking Les Mis, there's that side to them you perhaps hate them for as well which leaves you conflicted on them. Some are more good though and you like them, but they just have that flaw.

No worries. I'll try and maybe make a thread or two around here to improve activity, or respond to some, because I agree we need more discussion on this section. Thanks for making this thread though and I hope you've got some more too!
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:27 am

I'm not sure about her archetypal plot, but I have a suggestion for Cosette's character:

I think Cosette's more of a muse. Specifically, Object Muse with Marius:
The induced behavior is simply seeking out and attempting to get closer to the muse. Resolution lies in being joined with the object in some way.

Marius' attempts to find 'Ursula', basically. Although Cosette isn't an artistic muse, she inspires him and his search for her becomes integrated in his life. "Joined with the object" is the wedding, and I'm not going to go on a rant about how "object" is being used here.

With her relationship with Valjean, she's more of the Innocence Muse:
The induced behavior is protectiveness and shielding, keeping the muse blissfully ignorant. Resolution lies in the innocent losing innocence and rejecting the protection.
Valjean keeps Cosette from knowing their past, and thus gives her less of a 'load' than he has to bear, leaving her blissfully ignorant of her abusive childhood and his criminal record. It's a little ironic that the 'losing innocence' part comes after the wedding... Although she doesn't necessarily reject Valjean's protection, she is led out of it when she marries Marius.

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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:35 pm

That makes so much sense, Gervais. I love it. I've always thought of Cosette more as a "symbol," anyway, but I suppose this is the heart of the matter. Definitely. Could she be a combination object-innocence (primarily object) muse for Fantine, too, but one never recovered?
And I think that Marius would be an object muse for Éponine.
Oh! Oh! Oh! Valjean is the "Other Muse" for Javert, right? :mrgreen: Look, look!
The Other Muse: This is The Other of social justice or postmodern theorizing. Somebody whose path to self-actualization is in direct conflict with yours. If you try to self-actualize, they will be oppressed, and vice-versa. Resolution lies in breaking out of the zero-sum pattern or the death of one or the other.

:mrgreen:
The only one I feel like the list is really missing is something summing up Enjolras' muse. I feel like there should be an abstract muse, a sort of "muse of the ideal." {goes off to search for it}
That article was really interesting. :mrgreen:
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:09 am

When trying to find which of the literary muses like the ones earlier would fit Enjolras, I got sidetracked and found the original Greek muses instead. :oops: So this is probably going to steer the thread into oblivion, sorry. :oops:

When I first came across Urania, the description was "Astronomy...looks to the heavens to find the future and ideal," or something like that. It was on a quiz site though, so I googled her a bit more and got the article above. I'm thinking she's more of Jehan's matron if you will, mostly because of her emphasis on poetry and lack of emphasis on light, which would probably be a major component of Enjolras'.

Courfeyrac's muse would definitely be Thalia. Just look at her desccription:
Her name can also be interpreted as "The Luminous One," "She Who Brings Flowers," or "rich festivity."
Okay, she has the "light" bit that would be needed for Enjolras, but honestly, Enjy isn't exactly "rich festivity." And while Courfeyrac isn't really a fan of theatre (Thalia's expertise), he does have a tendency to "bring out the humor and drama in life's situations, often expressed with clowning and role play." She's also one of the Three Graces, so it would be pretty awesome if Enjy's and Combeferre's muses came from the other two.

...Okay, at least "muse"="muse." Sorry that I'm probably way off topic by now. :oops:

But look at the youngest one! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aglaea 'splendor, brilliant, shining one.'" The main problem I see with comparing Aglea and Enjy is that she tended to Aphrodite and thus had connections with the love gods, and Enjolras was the President of Chastity. But look at the names of her kids! "Mother of Eucleia (“Good Repute”), Eupheme (“Acclaim”), Euthenia (“Prosperity”), and Philophrosyne (“Welcome”)" Add "Republic" to that list and we'd be set. There's probably another muse that fits Enjolras better, but two of the three Graces so far somewhat fit two of the three leaders of the Amis.

...And it looks like those two are all we're going to get, because the other one, Euphrasine, is the goddess of merriment and is more of an extension of Courfeyrac if any Ami. :( Oh well. Aglea only really fit with Enjolras with her name, anyway. However, "Euphrasie" comes directly from "Euphrasine," so you could maybe argue that Cosette sort of represents her...

I apoligize for the hijacking. You may resume normal conversation at this time. :oops:
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:24 pm

F YEAH DOUBLE POST.

...I may as well stick a red flag here, shouldn't I? Anyway, look! Looklooklooklooklooklook! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

On still trying to find Enjolras:

Enjolras is an Athlete with this system, I think.
Because the Olympian is so connected to spiritual as well as physical strength, a code of ethics and morality is associated with the archetype, which is an excellent example of the universal power of the "psyche" of an archetype.
He could also a bit of a Knight, if you replace "king/lord/princess" with "republic:"
The Knight archetype is primarily associated with chivalry, courtly romance, protection of the Princess, and going to battle only for honorable causes. The Knight serves his King or Lord and so this archetype has spiritual overtones as well of service and devotion. Loyalty and self-sacrifice are the Knight's great virtues, along with a natural ability to get things done.
Knight goes with Combeferre a bit, too, if you consider republic/Enjolras as the king/lord/etc. replacements. It's a stretch for both, though, since they fight for a republic and not their honor. Though le republique could be considered on honorable cause, so it's a toss-up.

Enjy and the Bishop both have traits of a Liberator, as well..
But in everyday life, any number of people can play a similar role on a smaller scale, helping to liberate us from the tyranny of self-inflicted negative thought patterns and beliefs, spiritual sluggishness, poor nutrition, destructive relationships, or addictive behavior. This archetype can be an invaluable ally in helping to free us from old, entrenched beliefs and attitudes that have been inculcated from without, much like colonial occupying armies.


And finally, Enjolras is, overall, a Rebel.
The Rebel in a support group can be a powerful aid in helping the group break out of old tribal patterns. It can also help you see past tired preconceptions in your field of professional or creative endeavor. The Rebel can also lead you to reject spiritual systems that do not serve your inner need for direct union with the Divine and to seek out more appropriate paths.


...I think I'll be back eventually with some other characters.
Last edited by Gervais on Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:59 pm

My dear Gervais, you are brilliant. :shock:

That is amazing. Yes. We need to look into this. Most certainly. And of course, like I told you, you have absolutely no reason to apologize for any of this; I'm quite enjoying it. :mrgreen: And this thread needs something in it. {plants red flag} It's ours. :twisted: To research!

Oh, I really like the Liberator for the Bishop. It definitely fits, because it was what gave Valjean freedom for the first time, of sorts. I did wonder, though, because even after that he still wasn't free from the world, there were all these remnants of bondage, and it seems almost as if Hugo put a little less stock in the "complete freedom" in God that the bishop preached. But, anyway, I digress. :wink:

I like rebel for Enjolras, too. And knight, though the princess-lord-king would have to be changed to country-people-republic, you're right. It does seem, though, like a knight goes more into battle, yes for honor, but solely for honor/chivalry's sake, whereas Enjolras, while yes, he always was honorable, seemed to care less about that and more about the outcome. Such as when she shot the artillery guard. The athlete's an interesting one, though, it might just work... But anyway, yes, those are all good options.

Wow, Gervais, thanks. :shock: This is so cool. :mrgreen:
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:09 pm

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"Here upon these stones we build this barricade, in the heart of this thread that we claim as our own!" :twisted:

The thing is, no one fits entirely into one archetype. So while the Bishop is mostly liberator, Valjean still isn't 100% free, like you said, though he is definitely more free than he was before.

Enjolras as a knight is a bit of a stretch, looking back at it. He isn't fighting for his honor, he's fighting for the Republic. Going to look at that one again...ETA: He could fit it since the republic could be considered an "honorable cause," though.

More! Yes, more! :mrgreen:

Grantaire is part Saboteur and shadow Saboteur, I think.
The Saboteur archetype is made up of the fears and issues related to low self-esteem that cause you to make choices in life that block your own empowerment and success. As with the Victim and Prostitute, you need to face this powerful archetype that we all possess and make it an ally. When you do, you will find that it calls your attention to situations in which you are in danger of being sabotaged, or of sabotaging yourself. Once you are comfortable with the Saboteur, you learn to hear and heed these warnings, saving yourself untold grief from making the same mistakes over and over. Ignore it, and the shadow Saboteur will manifest in the form of self-destructive behavior or the desire to undermine others.
Would his quips in the Musain count for undermining others? I think so, but someone else may not.
He doesn't really have that many Addict traits, surprisingly. He doesn't seem to have an overwhelming lack of self control, though maybe it could be argued that Enjolras and booze have a power over him. So putting him as a "maybe Addict" for now.

Also, he is mostly a Clown. Yes, a Clown.
The Clown archetype is associated with three major characteristics: making people laugh, making them cry, and wearing a mask that covers one's own real emotions. The Clown is generally male, with few women playing the role either in literature or the theater. This may well be explained by the social attitude that associates weakness and loss of control with a man who expresses emotions. Therefore, the man has to wear a mask, which often portrays a crying face. The Clown reflects the emotions of the crowd, making an audience laugh by satirizing something they can relate to collectively or by acting out social absurdities. In general, the messages communicated through a Clown's humor are deeply serious and often critical of the hypocrisy in an individual or in some area of society. Because of the mask he wears, the Clown is allowed--indeed, expected--to cross the boundaries of social acceptance, representing what people would like to do or say themselves.
If you count drunkenness as his mask, it fits almost perfectly. His allusion-filled rants don't neccesarily aim to make the Amis laugh, but they can be taken deeper than face value sometimes.

Cosette is almost 100% Wounded Child. And Princess/Damsel, a bit, in the romantic sense of that one. The only reason the "almost" is there for WC is that it's very arguable as to how much her early childhood directly influenced her adulthood.
The painful experiences of the Wounded Child archetype often awaken a deep sense of compassion and a desire to find a path of service aimed at helping other Wounded Children.
Though you could argue that it was Valjean's goodness that helped lead to Cosette's, though the archetype doesn't exactly say that the child in question has to remember or realize that their childhood was the reason they act like they do.


Still not done with these. :twisted:

And to continue the Bishop digression: I think maybe it was that Valjean wasn't free from the world, but free to make his own choices once he got his new ID thanks to the bishop. Though there is some irony there, you're right. :wink:
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:05 pm

On to Valjean!
The most obvious one for him is Father.
A true Father guides and shields those under his care, sacrificing his own desires when that's appropriate.
Check, check, check.

There's some God/Hero, too.
On the positive side, a God can be benevolent and compassionate, willing to use his powers to help others out of love for humanity.
Using his money to improve M-sur-M, using his strength to rescue Fauchelvaunt, raising Cosette, general philanthropy...I think he's got this one covered. He doesn't really go into the negative side of it, unless you count stealing bread, but that was for a greater good and before he got his Muscles of Steel.

He fits Wounded Healer a bit, too.
The Wounded Healer is initiated into the art of healing through some form of personal hardship--anything from an actual physical injury or illness to the loss of all one's earthly possessions.
I don't think the Bishop would fit this one (though he is a Healer) because he chose to give away his possessions.

Obviously, he's a Hero, too, like Marius said before.
Many of the gods of the world's ancient religions began their lives as heroes capable of great feats of strength or skill. The Hero is also a classic figure in ancient Greek and Roman literature, often portrayed as one who must confront an increasingly difficult path of obstacles in order to birth his manhood.
While the literal birth to manhood for Valjean had its share of trials, you could even say from his "birth" as a parolee to his "manhood" as a redeemed father on his deathbed would fit.

He could be a Liberator to Cosette, too, or even a Martyr for her and Marius, maybe.

Okay, a big one I missed earlier: Enjolras as a Martyr.
The martyr is often highly respected for having the courage to represent a cause, even if it requires dying for that cause for the sake of others. Suffering so that others might be redeemed, whether that redemption take a spiritual or political form, is among the most sacred of human acts.
I'll only point out that even the soldiers who executed him had some respect for him, though more for his beauty and fierceness than his cause.

And a huge one I missed for Enjolras: Visionary.
The Visionary archetype lets you imagine possibilities that are beyond the scope of your individual life and that benefit all of society.
This one could go for Combeferre, too.
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Enjolvert » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:15 pm

Good one for Enjolras. I think the tragic hero one can apply too, although it's arguable that Enjolras recognises his flaw and adheres to it anyway. As I said earlier in the thread, Javert would definitely be a fit for the tragic hero arc though.
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Gervais
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:38 am

Oh yes, for sure. And I still haven't found a full literary archetype list for this, come to think of it...these are more personal and psychology based. :?

...I need to go back and group all of these by character sometime.

Cosette's turn. I said before that she was Damsel, but she's not, really. She's got some Healer in her, though.
The Healer archetype manifests as a passion to serve others in the form of repairing the body, mind, and spirit.
I wouldn't necessarily say Wounded Healer for her, because she doesn't remember her childhood.

The obvious one for her is Lover.
The key is having a sense of unbridled and exaggerated affection and appreciation of someone or something that influences the organization of your life and environment.
Marius has this one too, obviously, probably even more than she does, and Enjolras does, except the object of his affections is France. Also one for all three of them for most of the book, anyway is Virgin/Celibate, both physically and mentally pure.

Marius has quite a few himself. Other than the Hero one our Marius used to start this whole shebang, there's Student:
The Student archetype suggests an absence of mastery of any one subject but rather a continual pursuit of intellectual development.
He may not mean to sometimes, but it happens. There's also Seeker.
This archetype refers to one who searches on a path that may begin with earthly curiosity but has at its core the search for God and/or enlightenment. Unlike the Mystic, which has the Divine as its sole focus, the Seeker is in search of wisdom and truth wherever it is to be found. The shadow side of the archetype is the "lost soul," someone on an aimless journey without direction, ungrounded, disconnected from goals and others.
He's a little more of a lost soul sometimes, but he does find goals.
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"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

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YoungStudentMarius
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Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:56 am

Hey, Gervais, um...those sound really accurate, and I'll go into it more later, but, um, I was looking around at that website... :shock: It seems those aren't supposed to be for literature. :shock: It's this woman named Caroline Myss who claims to be a "medical intuitive and a mystic." And that's all part of her book about "unlocking the divine potential that existed in you before you were reincarnated again." And stuff. And she thinks she's a clairvoyant or something. And that everyone has these guiding archetypes inside them that determine your horoscope or something. Whoa. :shock: Did you, um, realize that?
Our chimeras are the things which most resemble us. Each of us dreams of the unknown and the impossible in accordance with his nature.

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Gervais
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: Marius Pontmercy and the Monomyth

Postby Gervais » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:01 am

I just did when I was working on the last one, actually. :shock: Not gonna lie, the welcome page scared me a bit... :shock: I guess we could argue that archetypes in lit exist because they exist in life, but I'm going to poke around for a different site... :shock:
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"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."


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