All those allusions

Any discussion related to Victor's Hugo's Les Misérables, in any language.
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Frédéric Dumont
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Postby Frédéric Dumont » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:45 am

Ok, Fréddie the Dolt remembered his point: Enjolras seems to me Robespierre in character rather than Saint-Just because Robespierre is the passionate one, whereas Saint-Just was calm to the point of phlegmatic and never had any "passionate slip" in his speeches.
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Aurelia Combeferre
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Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:03 am

What really gets me wondering are some of the Latin allusions/phrases used in "Les Misérables". Anyone know where I can find translations? :D
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Frédéric Dumont
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Postby Frédéric Dumont » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:21 pm

I can do that. Just name the phrase and where I find it, and you'll get what you want.
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Mademoiselle Lanoire
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Postby Mademoiselle Lanoire » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:21 pm

My editions (both French and English) have footnotes that translate them.

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Postby MmeJavert » Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:47 am

I translated most of the Latin in my edition of the Brick. And when I say that, I mean I pencilled the translations in the margins. XD Along with random dorkitude. And the post-it notes taking down all the interesting Enjy passages.
and to this day, she's glided on
always home but so far away
like a word misplaced
nothing said, what a waste

~pearl jam, "dissident"

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Frédéric Dumont
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Postby Frédéric Dumont » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:54 am

You NERD! :lol:

I translated most of the Latin too, but I didn't write it in the margin. Just once I asked my mom for some vocab I think, I was too lazy to look it up in the dictionary. :D
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THE BLOOD OF THE SPAMBOTS SHALL WATER THE MEADOWS OF FRANCE!!!

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Aurelia Combeferre
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Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:52 am

What does 'Rex Angusta' mean anyway? (not sure if I spelled that right).
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Postby MmeJavert » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:19 am

Purely from a Latin standpoint, here... since I've forgotten where this chapter is in conjunction with the rest of the story:

angusta means 'narrow' or 'confined'.
res is actually a pretty broad word, usually meaning 'affair' or 'thing', and it's meaning really depends on context -- it can mean a lot of different things depending on how and where it's used. In this case there isn't much context, so I can't say for sure exactly how it's used. Put them together as you will. :)


edit: Right, so apparently this means something a little different. My trusty Cassell's dictionary mentions that Cicero used the same phrase (well, the plural version), and he took it to mean 'uncertain circumstances'. Which pretty much goes to show the broad scope of the word res more than anything, and that context = everything.
and to this day, she's glided on
always home but so far away
like a word misplaced
nothing said, what a waste

~pearl jam, "dissident"

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Aurelia Combeferre
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Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:22 am

Oh, now I get it. A reference to Marius' financial situation not long after he leaves M. Gillenormand's house. Thanks.
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

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Frédéric Dumont
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Postby Frédéric Dumont » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:52 am

... You beat me to it. Missed a chance to show off. Bugger. :wink:
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THE BLOOD OF THE SPAMBOTS SHALL WATER THE MEADOWS OF FRANCE!!!

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MmeJavert
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Postby MmeJavert » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:53 am

Hey, I'm the resident Latin nerd, here. XD But you'll get your chance too, I'm sure.
and to this day, she's glided on
always home but so far away
like a word misplaced
nothing said, what a waste

~pearl jam, "dissident"

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Frédéric Dumont
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Postby Frédéric Dumont » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:52 am

Right. I'm the resident nerd with a Latin-teaching mum. 8) (Which is something that makes you excessively popular among your classmates...)
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aka Darth Gilthoron

I am the lawrr and the lawrr is not mocked! *growl*

THE BLOOD OF THE SPAMBOTS SHALL WATER THE MEADOWS OF FRANCE!!!

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Finny
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Re: All those allusions

Postby Finny » Sat May 22, 2010 2:43 am

I'm a bit confused about one allusion Hugo makes in "June 5th, 1832." He writes "According as the Tuileries contain the King or contain the Convention, they are justly or unjustly attacked. The same cannon pointed against the multitude is wrong the 10th of August and right the 14th of Vendémiaire. Similar in appearance, different at bottom; the Swiss defend the false, Bonaparte defends the true."

First of all, what is "the 10th of August?" And while we're at it, what is "the 14th of Vendémiaire?" I've tried to look it up and the only thing I've found that matches the description he gives is the 13th of Vendémiaire. That's the whole "whiff of grapeshot" incident. It seems to fit the whole cannon pointed at the crowds by Napoléon, but it's the wrong day. So I'm confused. Is there some 14 Vendémiare I can't seem to find or did Hugo just mess up?

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Re: All those allusions

Postby MmeBahorel » Sat May 22, 2010 6:16 am

10 August 1792: taking of the Tuileries defended by the Swiss Guards (the King's personal bodyguards); the abolition of the kingship and the death of Louis XVI followed. It's the 13th, not the 14th Vendémiaire, year IV (5 october 1795) that Bonaparte stopped the royalist insurgents marching on the Convention.


(direct translation from the footnotes to the 1985 edition published by the Bouquins imprint of Robert Laffont - my copy is the 1995 printing. Editors Guy & Annette Rosa.)

Victor had a tendency to get his dates wrong.
What kind of literature and what kind of life is the same question. - Tom Stoppard

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Mlle Patria
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Re: All those allusions

Postby Mlle Patria » Mon May 31, 2010 10:58 pm

Just a thought on Jehan Prouvaire:
Do you think his name has anything to do with the "Rue des Prouvaires" when they were going to try and kidnap Louis-Phillipe? It might have absolutely nothing to do with it, but then again it may!
Vive la France! Vive l'avenir!


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