All those allusions

Any discussion related to Victor's Hugo's Les Misérables, in any language.
User avatar
Marianne
Posts: 1724
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:20 pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby Marianne » Mon May 31, 2010 11:12 pm

It could. There are, after all, no coincidences in Hugo-land...
[Dieu] entend ta voix, ô fille des hommes! aussi bien que celle des constellations; car rien n'est petit pour celui devant lequel rien n'est grand.
- George Sand, Les sept cordes de la lyre

User avatar
MmeBahorel
Posts: 1773
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:12 am
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby MmeBahorel » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:05 am

The edition I cited above calls your attention to the rue des Prouvaires and the revolutionary plot hatched there - it seems that while there is no direct statement by Hugo (otherwise they would have mentioned it), it's a well-accepted theory, or just obvious enough to be mentioned in the footnotes.
What kind of literature and what kind of life is the same question. - Tom Stoppard

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: All those allusions

Postby Gervais » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:22 pm

Guess what I found out today?

There is a catholic saint called Saint Gervase, or in French, Gervais. And guess what else? He's the patron (along with his brother) for the Discovery of Thieves. :shock: And he's often seen holding stones--wasn't Petit Gervais walking down the path kicking a rock? http://saints.sqpn.com/saint-gervase/
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

Enjolvert
Posts: 1453
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:40 pm
Location: With Valjean and Thenardier

Re: All those allusions

Postby Enjolvert » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:34 pm

If it's true then that's a great find. The impact that moment has on Valjean is massive, so it wouldn't surprise me if Hugo meant it. If he did, then it's almost symbolic in Valjean coming across a saint figure of types and then truly coming to realise his ways before then making that change.
The law is unjust.

User avatar
Gervais
Posts: 5975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm
Location: Smelling your soul within your handkerchief

Re: All those allusions

Postby Gervais » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:58 pm

Enjolvert wrote:If it's true then that's a great find. The impact that moment has on Valjean is massive, so it wouldn't surprise me if Hugo meant it. If he did, then it's almost symbolic in Valjean coming across a saint figure of types and then truly coming to realise his ways before then making that change.

His being a saint who is believed to catch thieves is definetly true, though his existence seems a little iffy. Here's another article on him: http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=440 Then, Valjean came across two saint figures in Myriel and Petit...anyone know if the two would have any significance, or was that just Hugo making a point that one person alone can't change a man?
Image

"The peas, Woyzeck. The PEAS."

User avatar
Aurelia Combeferre
Posts: 8847
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:57 am
Location: somewhere with the abased
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:45 am

Probably the latter. Though I thought the Petit Gervais incident was also a way to demonstrate that Valjean's change was never instantaneous.
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

User avatar
between4walls
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby between4walls » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:54 am

In the discussion of the 1823 intervention in Spain in "The Ankle-Chain Must Have Undergone a Certain Preparatory Manipulation," there's a reference to, "beside the son of France as generalissimo, the Prince de Carignan, afterwards Charles Albert, enrolling himself in that crusade of kings against people as a volunteer, with grenadier epaulets of red worsted."

Charles Albert was a prince, later king of Piedmont-Sardinia. He came to Spain after being involved in a failed attempt to bring a Spanish-inspired constitution to Piedmont-Sardinia. The events were full of intrigue, and Charles Albert managed to piss off both the revolutionaries and the rest of the royal family by effectively betraying both sides at different times. He managed to issue a constitution during his brief regency, but it was rescinded as soon as the king got back.

His participation in crushing the liberals in Spain was therefore widely considered hypocritical, which is probably why Hugo comments ironically on his "enrolling himself in that crusade of kings against people as a volunteer." Possibly more important to Hugo, Charles Albert had previously been an officer under Napoleon.

Fighting against the Spanish constitutionalists got Charles Albert back in the king's good graces. As king Charles Albert was initially fairly conservative and repressed the Young Italy movement, but became more liberal as time went on. He redeemed himself during 1848, by issuing a constitution, for good this time, and trying to unite the country (he failed in this and abdicated). This constitution, unlike that of other Italian states, was not rescinded in the reaction that followed 1848.
Last edited by between4walls on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

User avatar
Aurelia Combeferre
Posts: 8847
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:57 am
Location: somewhere with the abased
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby Aurelia Combeferre » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:56 am

Oh that is interesting. Sneaky Hugo!
"...all aptitudes having equal opportunity; politically, all votes having equal weight; religiously, all consciences having equal rights."

User avatar
between4walls
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby between4walls » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:08 am

My mom's family's from Piedmont, and I grew up knowing of "Carlo Alberto" as a good guy for his constitutional efforts. It was a shock to read in LM what he had done in Spain! But though he was a more complex character than I thought, he did finally leave a good legacy.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

User avatar
between4walls
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby between4walls » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:52 am

Oh, and I forgot the most important thing about him- about when Les Misérables was written, Charles Albert's son Victor Emmanuel had just become the first king of Italy!
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.

User avatar
between4walls
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: All those allusions

Postby between4walls » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:13 pm

Éponine's name in the first draft was Palmyre, the name of city in Syria. A commentary on her death scene at Groupe Hugo suggests a link the palm as a symbol of victory, but given both M. Thenardier's romance-novel penchant and Éponine's fate, I think it's a reference to the rebel warrior-queen Zenobia, ruler of the short-lived Palmyrene Empire, who led a revolt against Rome but was defeated and captured.

The Éponine/Epponina backstory reference works much better, but this one is pretty cool too.
Here day embraces night, and says: I will die with you and you will be reborn with me. From the heavy embrace of all desolations springs faith.

The real name of devotion is disinterestedness.


Return to “The Brick”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests