Political Posts

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Prisoner 24653
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Prisoner 24653 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:08 pm

So, with devastation in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands after the latest round of hurricanes, and Florida and Texas still not fully recovered after theirs (not to mention wildfires in Montana that haven't been getting nearly as much attention), the Donald has instead been focusing on... athletes protesting during the National Anthem. Even managed to unite nearly the entire NFL against him by demanding that players be fired for "taking a knee." Stay classy, Donny.

Good to see that the latest attempt at repealing the Affordable Care Act is also looking like it won't pass the Senate, at least!

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Re: Political Posts

Postby Acaila » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:40 pm

I know Americans are really weird about their flag and such, but even then I can't believe how ridiculous people are being about this.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:00 pm

Acaila wrote:I know Americans are really weird about their flag and such, but even then I can't believe how ridiculous people are being about this.

What gets me is, people saying that kneeling during the anthem is a slur on the military. It has nothing to do with the military. But I think we're getting far too militaristic anyway. Uniformolatry, I call it--worship of uniforms. People get that way about the police, too, which leads to other troubles.

This is the best article I've seen about that "disrespecting the troops" business. I don't know where he is in the picture, but it looks like Afghanistan.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/one-sacrificed-stop-using-anti-take-knee-argument/
"From One Who Sacrificed: Stop Using Me in Your Anti-“Take a Knee” Argument"
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Acaila » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:27 am

I saw a post on facebook (admittedly, that is always a bad way to start a point) saying Kaepernick had been just sitting down until he spoke to a veteran about it, and decided to kneel as that was still showing respect while making a point. So if that is true, it's doubly idiotic.
But lol at all the flag rage and the "fire them all!" coming from the same people who whine about "snowflakes" without the slightest hint of irony.
The flag obsession and the uniformolatry really show how poor the state of political debate is in America, that so many will automatically leap to that irrelevant yet highly effective crutch to argue over.

There wasn't this much outrage (a lot of tabloid fuss, but nothing on the same scale) when the leader of the opposition in the UK didn't sing the national anthem at a WW2 memorial service!
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:11 pm

I'm so ashamed. Those tweets about Puerto Rico and Mayor Cruz of San Juan. First he doesn't send help, then he defames Mayor Cruz who's on the ground and trying to fix things without enough supplies or logistical aid. If a person fell in a well he'd say they were self-seeking for wanting somebody to lower a rope. I just don't know what to say. How much worse can it get? The death toll is rising among sick people--they are running out of insulin, can't get dialysis, oxygen failing, things like that. How many deaths? We don't know, because there's no communications. (embittered)But we know how much Republicans care about sick people.(/embittered)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/09/30/trump-called-san-juans-mayor-a-weak-leader-heres-what-her-leadership-looks-like/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/30/us/lin-manuel-miranda-trump-hurricane.html "You're going straight to hell, @realDonaldTrump.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:01 pm

Re the shooting in Las Vegas. My personal beliefs as an American citizen: There should be background checks for buying guns and a waiting period, and training and licensing like for cars. This might cut back on background-noise gun deaths (like family disputes, suicides, road rage), but I don't think it would cut back on mass shootings.

What also won't help is increased mental health services.

Strictly speaking, it is very rare for an actual mentally ill person to commit a mass shooting--unless you define mass murder as a mental illness, which would be circular reasoning. Almost always it is someone (usually a white man) without a DSM-5 condition but with a backlog of rage. Anger is the problem, not mental illness. There have been exceptions, of course--people who were delusional. But most of them are sane and angry.

And there are plenty of people out there who are making their living inspiring rage in their followers. Rage is a drug, probably literally causing brain changes, and they are pushers. I mean radio talk show hosts--also certain websites and activity on social media.

There are good reasons for keeping guns away from people with mental illnesses--preventing suicide--but stopping mass shootings is not one.

Note on people having guns. My liberal family is and always has been for gun control of the strictest, and yet we own guns--a shotgun and a Kentucky long rifle (the one I have made bullets for and shot) and a carbine that I'm not sure we still have. People just do own guns here, more in the South than the North, but all over really.
Don't mess with Texas! We mess up enough by ourselves.
I have actually made bullets like they're doing in my avatar. Then loaded the gun with a ramrod, and shot it. But I'm not feeling real good about guns right now.

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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:07 pm

Acaila wrote:I saw a post on facebook (admittedly, that is always a bad way to start a point) saying Kaepernick had been just sitting down until he spoke to a veteran about it, and decided to kneel as that was still showing respect while making a point. So if that is true, it's doubly idiotic.
It's a true story: http://www.snopes.com/veteran-kaepernic ... ee-anthem/

...how poor the state of political debate is in America...
Yes, and now post-Las Vegas all the worst kinds of discourse will appear.
Don't mess with Texas! We mess up enough by ourselves.
I have actually made bullets like they're doing in my avatar. Then loaded the gun with a ramrod, and shot it. But I'm not feeling real good about guns right now.

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Re: Political Posts

Postby freedomlover » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:39 am

ahh yeahhh, cultural things.

Tbh, I don't really care if somebody doesn't want to stand for the flag. Its their right not to stand, right?


So I was discussing political theory with a bunch of old high school friends, and one of them keeps calling me a socialist. Only Acaila can truely diagnose me, right?

Like I don't think I've changed that much in college, although Sophomore year I noticed I started being "left" on spectrum tests.


Basically I think CEO wages should be controlled, and everybody should be gurenteed a job in the field they studied and basic living.



Then I remembered somebody's words on here that "socialism is just economics, not social" and felt a bit better since I'm pretty leniant when it comes to people's personal liberties.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby deHavilland » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:36 am

I really don't understand why Americans feel that socialism is a four-letter word, except that I do and it's because of propaganda and the push on the part of the rich for capitalism to remain the flavor of the day. Capitalism is the idea that instead of a country's industry being controlled by its government, it's controlled by a few wealthy private owners. Communism is the idea that it's owned by "the public" and everything is "evenly distributed" to that public, except that in practice who is going to enforce that even distribution? The government or some other ruling autocratic class, which is typically why communism sounds like a great idea "yeah, let's all work the same amount for the same amount of stuff and everyone is equal to everyone else and we all have happy, fulfilled lives with everything we need" but tends to fall apart on a large scale because corruption is a thing that we can't seem to get past as a species.

Socialism is like the friendly stepping stone between the two. Maybe individuals shouldn't control literally everything based on who has the most money in a crooked system that means only the rich get richer. And maybe we should share with each other to ensure everyone has enough of the pie to not a) starve to death or b) die on the hospital doorstep because they're sick and can't afford to see the doctor and be treated. And maybe, just maybe, we could also stretch that far enough to say everyone has enough of the pie to c) have a right to a decent and affordable education so that they can d) get a job in the field that they studied so that they can e) afford to make a living.

Oh. Wait. That sounds like it all goes full circle. If people don't have to worry about food or illness they can focus on getting a good education and then probably get a job where they don't need to rely on government assistance to not worry about food or illness therefore opening up that funding to go to other people who can then also make it to the point where they don't need to rely on assistance either.

Socialism. Boo. Hiss.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby freedomlover » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:58 pm

I think its a cultural thing going back to the Cold War, and the constant fear of the "Soviet Socialist Republics" which in turn resulted in our entire political culture being different.

Even though there are large differences between different varities of socialism, and communism (even different varities of communism) Even the slightest suggestion of saying "maybe CEOs earn a bit too much and get away with too much corruption" will result in being called literal Stalin. Or people immediately dismiss it as "you are so wrong! the pure free market is the best! you are wrong!"

But do we really have a "free market?" Can it be a "free market" if CEOs earn so much, and people are only hired on family connection bases? We as a society as enslaved to our own debt.

Or people say "young people in the US aren't actually suffering, its all a myth." Hmmm on a daily basis now I have friends moving abroad just for the hopes of a work permit, or just for the hopes of work.
People major in cool things at university, but the only "jobs" available are working at Walmarts or a grocery store. We are told to "get more education" but they make it so unaffordable you'd have to work at Walmart for many years before getting reasonable money.

Do not want to sound blunt but the reason the problem isn't as bad as it was a few years ago is because people have just been emigrating to get away from the problem.
I was even considering temporarily working abroad to get money, but France (the country I was looking into) has tough work permit standards.

I really don't understand why people are saying "we can't give everybody a job in their field" or "we can't give everybody a job" but everybody has the right to live right? doesn't the right to live extend to mean a right to a job? preferely in the field you studied so you can actually put your education to use?
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Acaila » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:54 pm

deHavilland wrote:Socialism is like the friendly stepping stone between the two.


The thing that so many people forget is that even Marx and Engels didn't see communism as an immediate thing. They always said you need to go through a socialist state before you get to communism.

That's why I identify as a socialist (and a Marxist one at that). Communism, eh maybe. But let's get on to the stepping stone nearer to it first.

Also the SSRs weren't really socialist. State capitalist. Russia especially was totally not the sort of country Marx and Engels envisioned communism working. They were writing about the increasingly industrial and urban countries of Western Europe.

As far as things like the wage gap, in both the US and the UK, the biggest indicator of how wealthy someone will be in their life is how wealthy their parents are. Doesn't exactly mesh with the "American Dream" does it?

The Scottish government are actually talking at the moment about introducing a universal basic income. I don't know that it'll happen soon, or even at all, but it's a fantastic thing to be looking into.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby freedomlover » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:03 am

Acaila wrote:
As far as things like the wage gap, in both the US and the UK, the biggest indicator of how wealthy someone will be in their life is how wealthy their parents are. Doesn't exactly mesh with the "American Dream" does it?

The Scottish government are actually talking at the moment about introducing a universal basic income. I don't know that it'll happen soon, or even at all, but it's a fantastic thing to be looking into.


Basic income sounds like a cool idea. Can't wait to see how it turns out.


Tbh, even getting a job here you need family connections. Any job, even just a simple minimum wage job. Its also very hard to even get jobs in other states because people want the "family connections."

I applied to one job in a field i'm super passionate about, and I knew some people working there. But I lost out to a girl who never even studied that field, but her dad was a lawyer with that law firm.

I'm not even sure if anybody really believes in the "American Dream" I always thought that was something that grandparents believed it, but was kind of a thing of the past now because of how messed up our hiring situation is :roll:
I think we should pursue a world where everybody has a chance to get employment in their field of study. We do not have it now, but we should strive to have it someday.

I know alot of my classmates didn't even try to get jobs here, they just left the country and did teaching English abroad. Or if they had any claim to EU citizenship through ancestry, they tried to get it as fast as they could and they left.

Makes me kind of sad though. I'm totally for people moving abroad and pursuing their dreams. If your goal is to move abroad, go for it! Globalization and seeing different cultures is awesome.
but like things here are so messed up, and I really want to make things better and at least make it so everybody can have the opportunity to get a job regardless of their family origin. now that I interned in Paris I kind of want to move abroad haha well temporarily.


Seriously though, true freedom includes the freedom to live. We can have the market without restraint like we do now- but is that really freedom? if people can't even get jobs without family connections?

a wealthy kid living in Virginia within commuting distance of DC has a much better chance at life than a kid from the slums of New York City, with no connections.

(disclaimer: these are extreme examples. I know my life isn't that bad, but i'm just like "ugh so much injustice")

Pretty confident none of this is Stalinism.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby deHavilland » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:22 am

freedomlover wrote:But do we really have a "free market?" Can it be a "free market" if CEOs earn so much, and people are only hired on family connection bases? We as a society as enslaved to our own debt.


I think you're confusing what a free market actually is. It has nothing to do with how much a CEO earns and totally allows for people to hire based on nepotism alone. A free market is one where there are no rules and no governing forces. Where the government can't say "you have to have racial diversity in your hiring practices" or "it's not right to discriminate who you hire based on sexual preference, race, or religion." A free market is one where the government can't say "no, I'm sorry, you can't hold a monopoly on X product just so you can jack up the prices" and where the postal service, national parks, hospitals, roads, and schools are owned by private business-people who can charge whatever they want for any of those services, and who can discriminate in their prices and who they provide their services to. In a free market, there is no FDA saying "okay, this drug is not good for human consumption, you can't sell that to people" or where there are no licensing boards saying "okay, you have the training to follow the rules and be a good real estate agent/auctioneer/accountant/lawyer/any other profession that requires a license to practice." You don't want a free market. A truly free market is Mad Max.

freedomlover wrote:People major in cool things at university, but the only "jobs" available are working at Walmarts or a grocery store. We are told to "get more education" but they make it so unaffordable you'd have to work at Walmart for many years before getting reasonable money.

I really don't understand why people are saying "we can't give everybody a job in their field" or "we can't give everybody a job" but everybody has the right to live right? doesn't the right to live extend to mean a right to a job? preferely in the field you studied so you can actually put your education to use?


I'm going to be brutally honest here and say that I completely disagree with the idea that everyone is entitled to a job in the field they studied, because let's be honest: some people study stupid things. (And sometimes "cool things" that people major in do not a good source of income make.) My younger brother is majoring in Classics. There are a few jobs that having a degree in Classics and a fundamental understanding of Ancient Greek philosophers and an ability to read and write in Latin are going to be good for, but there aren't a lot and they don't really contribute to the fundamental needs of society on the whole. When the gatekeepers of those jobs say "listen, we can't give everybody a job in this field" and close the door in his face, he's going to have to soldier on and find temporary other work until he can get in where he wants to be.

And you know what? That's okay. Because my brother is studying Classics by choice. He knows that the likelihood of walking out of Convocation Hall on graduation day isn't going to result in some man in a fedora walking up to him and saying "you have a degree in Classics, we're going to pay you sixty million dollars to help us on our expedition to the lost city of Atlantis." (Or, from a more mundanely realistic standpoint: "you have a degree in classics, you should come and work as a research assistant at our museum/university/place of learning.") My brother knows he might have to put in some work at Wal-Mart first and that's okay. And that doesn't just apply to Classics: if you study Arts History or Film and Television or English or Medieval Studies or Paleontology or Theatre Arts or Sociology or Hospitality and Tourism, it just might not pan out for you. Not right away and maybe not ever. That's the risk that you take. And that's okay, because while you're waiting for your Medieval Studies job to pan out and you're working at Wal-Mart or Starbucks or the gas station or bussing tables, you're filling a need that society has for the service industry. And one day, if you're lucky, the Classics professor at your alma mater will die suddenly and a position will open up and you'll get to teach Classics to the next generation of service industry professionals.

That's life. "You're a special snowflake and you can be anything you want to be" but you'll be way more successful way more quickly if you become an accountant or a nurse or a computer engineer because that's the kind of stuff we actually need.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Acaila » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:46 am

Even studying a "sensible" degree is no guarantee. I graduated with a first in Drama during a recession and have a graduate job in my subject, but my bf did the sensible job in a huge, successful, big-money field....and is about to lose his unrelated, no qualifications required temp job.
I'm a big believer in utilising skills. Before I moved into teaching, I worked in marketing and events management. Nothing strictly related to theatre, but my degree improved my writing skills, my design skills, my organisation skills, etc. all of which I could draw on for other jobs.
Though I didn't know your bro was studying Classics. A really interesting subject area!
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Re: Political Posts

Postby 23623 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:26 pm

As an economics major, I agree with most of what Havvy has said. Actually the current situation reflects perfectly how the job market is functioning. Job hunting is harder for some majors simply because the demand for such positions is lower. STEM majors find jobs much easier and earn much more because the demand is higher. It's not practical at all to make sure that every university graduate gets a job relevant to their field of study because it's impossible to assess or artificially generate the demand necessary to make up for the excessive supply from certain majors. Employers are not philantrophists. They need to make profits, so they only hire people who can help them do so. It's indeed a pity to see that there are people who study cool things in university but cannot get a job after graduation, but I guess the thing is that the time has not yet arrived when everybody is allowed to dream and to be whoever they want to be. Maybe in the distant future when AIs can deal with most of the physical and repetitive tasks for us, there will be a shift in the structure of the labor market and jobs that rely more heavily on human experience, intelligence and creativity (e.g. art) will become more popular. Who knows? :)

Economics aside, most of the time the chance of you getting a job really depends more on your *actual* skills than your major. I agree with Acaila that you really need to try to develop as many skills as you can even if they have nothing to do with your major. You never know when they will become handy in your career. I have friends who studied politics in university but are now working in investment banks. The key is to always get prepared, plan ahead and have multiple plans.

I'm really sorry to hear that you're struggling to find a job, freedomlover. *hugs* I've screwed up countless interviews and seriously had some sort of existential crisis after the repeated failure at job hunting. I know how bad it hurts, but please do not lose faith in yourself or the society. There will always be a way. Good luck! :D
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