Political Posts

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Acaila
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Acaila » Wed May 17, 2017 6:58 pm

That is a fun little fact about the root of "senator", I feel like I will keep that in my back pocket for political one ups :lol:

We've got a snap general election here. Nasty Orwellian Cruella de Vil vs fluffy left-wing Obi Wan Kenobi, who is sadly getting absolutely gutted by the media. It's quite depressing that places like the BBC that was always famously the neutral source of news are getting rather nakedly partisan in recent years :(
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CC21106
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Thu May 18, 2017 12:57 am

Acaila wrote:That is a fun little fact about the root of "senator", I feel like I will keep that in my back pocket for political one ups :lol:

Same root as senile, too :)

BBC not neutral? That certainly sucks. It's hard to navigate through the news these days. I have an app called SmartNews that pulls it in from every source, enabling the user to easily mix and match and ignore the obvious slanted ones. It didn't take me long to scope out Breitbart after seeing some of their stuff in SmartNews.

There's a neat graphic going the rounds that graphs news sources by credibility & sophistication, and political leaning. You may have seen it. I'm on my phone so I can't look it up and give a URL, but it should be easy to find.
Don't mess with Texas! We mess up enough by ourselves.
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CC21106
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Thu May 18, 2017 3:20 pm

Don't mess with Texas! We mess up enough by ourselves.
I have actually made bullets like they're doing in my avatar. Then loaded the gun with a ramrod, and shot it. But I'm not feeling real good about guns right now.

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CeridwenLynne
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CeridwenLynne » Sat May 20, 2017 1:57 pm

Thanks for posting this link!

Now I know why the USA Today is one of my favorite sources for getting news and that if I want detailed news I'll pick up a copy of the WSJ. :wink:

The far-left and the far-right really scare the crap out of me. Whatever happened to the moderates in both parties.
" He makes no vain sacrifice who fights for a cause. All here are ready to die so that our brothers may live as free men. Liberty... sweet liberty... come fight with those who defend you." ----Enjolras.

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CC21106
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Sat May 20, 2017 2:41 pm

CeridwenLynne wrote:Thanks for posting this link!

Now I know why the USA Today is one of my favorite sources for getting news and that if I want detailed news I'll pick up a copy of the WSJ. :wink:

The far-left and the far-right really scare the crap out of me. Whatever happened to the moderates in both parties.
That's a fact. Centrists seem a dying species. People that can work together with their counterparts across the aisle. The current chaos is likely to polarize the country even more.

Mr. Trump is on his trip to see the world. Someone said the best he can possibly do is offend as few people as possible. Talk about scaring the crap out. The trouble he could get into talking to foreign leaders makes me break out in a cold sweat. He's already demonstrated the inability to keep secrets.
Don't mess with Texas! We mess up enough by ourselves.
I have actually made bullets like they're doing in my avatar. Then loaded the gun with a ramrod, and shot it. But I'm not feeling real good about guns right now.

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Acaila
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Acaila » Mon May 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Centrism is overrated imo. I'm very proud to be an out and out left-winger. Our election at the moment is primarily between a moderate left-winger being portrayed as a dangerous radical communist for policies such as abolishing university tuition fees and increasing carers allowance, as opposed to the supposed centre-right lot, who are trying to shed their "nasty party" image abolish the ban on foxhunting and take away homes worth over 100k from dementia sufferers. Needless to say, I know who I'm voting for.
Though you don't need to be a centrist to work with others either. The latest smear job on Corbyn is that he has "refused to condemn" the IRA. Which is incorrect, he's repeatedly condemned all Northern Irish related terrorism, as opposed to only one side, and was advocating actually sitting down and talking to those involved (getting called a dangerous radical in the process), at the same time the British state figured out they maybe should try that, but did it all in secret.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Rachel » Tue May 23, 2017 4:15 am

I totally agree, Acaila!!! Of course total polarization with no centrists is bad, but you need the fringes (I will argue more the left than the right) to push for any meaningful change.
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Prisoner 24653
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Prisoner 24653 » Tue May 23, 2017 11:39 am

Agreed. I think disenfranchisement of voters is a huge problem regardless of where they are on the political spectrum (and it would be nice to see more moderates -- especially US Republicans who had the courage to stand up to Trump's party line), but I don't see centrists as inherently more "correct" or "enlightened" than those of any other viewpoint. That's argumentum ad temperantiam -- argument to moderation, commonly called the "golden mean fallacy." The correct, moral, or economically responsible view is not always the midpoint between two extremes.

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CeridwenLynne
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CeridwenLynne » Tue May 23, 2017 2:40 pm

I really guess moderates like myself are going the way of the dinosaurs. :wink: I don't fit in with either the Republicans or the Democrats because both parties have been taken over by the fringes. Yes, I'll sat it again. Radicals on both sides of the spectrum scare the crap out of me. How can anything get done with people who refuse to compromise even when its in the best interest of the country? I lean right when it comes to fiscal and economic issues like taxes and entitlement programs while on social issues like gay marriage and legalization of pot I tend to lean left. The Libertarian party is the best fit for me but our chances of winning elections is zero. In the USA it seems you're either Republican or Democrat or you're nothing.
" He makes no vain sacrifice who fights for a cause. All here are ready to die so that our brothers may live as free men. Liberty... sweet liberty... come fight with those who defend you." ----Enjolras.

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Re: Political Posts

Postby Rachel » Tue May 23, 2017 5:42 pm

I will make the argument that there are some things you just can't compromise on. Always seeking a compromise makes the assumption that both sides are equally legitimate which I really don't think is true in every case. If you have one side insisting the earth is flat and one insisting the earth is round, there's no compromise there. Pretending that both sides are equally legitimate means we end up with some nonsense compromise like the earth is a cube or something. And when it comes to politics, I have absolutely no interest in compromising on my fundamental principles. So I have absolutely no desire to compromise with people like Mike Pence when they say that gay couples are bringing about societal collapse or when they attempt to kill anti-discrimination legislation. Either you believe gay people are entitled to equal protection or you don't and in my view, settling for less than that equal protection is a betrayal of what I believe in.
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Acaila
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Acaila » Tue May 23, 2017 6:31 pm

Two party systems are dumb to be fair.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the concept of the Overton window: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
Basically, the centre moves. Sadly, most Western countries, certainly US and UK, seem to have the Overton window moving further to the right :(
Here's political compass' analysis of that trend: https://www.politicalcompass.org/images ... esTime.gif
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freedomlover
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Re: Political Posts

Postby freedomlover » Wed May 24, 2017 1:29 am

ugh, j'accorde!

I've noticed even within the past 8 years the system moving further and further right, coupled with the discontentness of the lower and working classes being exploited.

Currently it seems somebody has taken advantage of the blue collar workers and used it to ride to the top.

We need less income inequality, we need free education (and of course we need stronger incentives for companies to hire young people), we need certain people not to earn so much money, we need more freedom of religion, the press, freedom of speech, etc. Liberty and equality much work together to truely make a nation great.

Does military strength really make a nation "great?" This could be argued, but I would say "no." Of course military power could make a nation feared But I think "great" would be a nation with its citizens given human rights and a chance to make their lives better.


I love how people are like "but you thought the Democrats were violating the constitution, isn't it good the Republicans are in power now?" uhh both parties have been doing a ping-pong game of power tbh.


I think a multiparty system would be ideal, of course we need the fringes, and we need some "traditional liberal", "traditional conservative" and we need a couple center parties. The definitions of "left","right","conservative" and "liberal" also seem to be very fluid terms.
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Re: Political Posts

Postby Rachel » Wed May 24, 2017 9:07 pm

freedomlover wrote:
Currently it seems somebody has taken advantage of the blue collar workers and used it to ride to the top.


I assume we're talking about Trump?

I agree that they've been taken advantage of, but I think you really need to address the root causes. Why do half of all Americans feel like it's acceptable to vote for a guy who is a blatant racist and Islamophobe? The fact that we live in a climate where that's acceptable for so many Americans speaks to a societal disease bigger than Trump.
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CC21106
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Wed May 24, 2017 9:35 pm

freedomlover wrote:ugh, j'accorde!

I've noticed even within the past 8 years the system
the world
moving further and further right, coupled with the discontentness of the lower and working classes being exploited.

Currently it seems somebody has taken advantage of the blue collar workers and used it to ride to the top.
Regrettably yes.

We need less income inequality, we need free education (and of course we need stronger incentives for companies to hire young people), we need certain people not to earn so much money, we need more freedom of religion, the press, freedom of speech, etc. Liberty and equality much work together to truely make a nation great.
All of which is true.

Does military strength really make a nation "great?" This could be argued, but I would say "no." Of course military power could make a nation feared But I think "great" would be a nation with its citizens given human rights and a chance to make their lives better.
I agree with you 100%. Thinking that greatness is equivalent to military strength is like judging people by their muscles. Where would that put Stephen Hawking?

I also don't like uniformolatry, but I keep quiet about it because, you know, "do you hate the police? do you want them to get shot? what about our veterans?" When I was a kid ALL the men were veterans and of a great and bloody war, too. I don't know how to say what I'm saying without sounding like I'm dissing people in (or used to be in) uniform. I just think that all citizens should be equal. If you carry it to extremes, like Robert A. Heinlein, only veterans could vote. There's a fine line between respecting and taking care of them (yes, we should) and giving them special citizenship privileges (nobody should get those, whether based on service, money or any other quality).
Don't mess with Texas! We mess up enough by ourselves.
I have actually made bullets like they're doing in my avatar. Then loaded the gun with a ramrod, and shot it. But I'm not feeling real good about guns right now.

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CC21106
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Re: Political Posts

Postby CC21106 » Wed May 24, 2017 10:10 pm

Rachel wrote:I agree that they've been taken advantage of, but I think you really need to address the root causes. Why do half of all Americans feel like it's acceptable to vote for a guy who is a blatant racist and Islamophobe? The fact that we live in a climate where that's acceptable for so many Americans speaks to a societal disease bigger than Trump.
Analogies with various grisly diseases come to mind--things that are systemic, but break out in spots or buboes or (NSFW) a chancre.

To continue a biological metaphor, I think the responses to terrorist attacks can be like allergy attacks. Something really does insult your body, say a bee sting, and if you're allergic you can go into anaphylactic shock where your body's defenses turn against itself. So am I calling these shocking atrocities "no more than a bee sting"? Of course not. They are acts of unjustifiable evil. But a severe "allergic" reaction could destroy our society as we know it quicker than all the terrorists put together and I think they understand this.

An example of something our society (US) is not "allergic" to is car accident fatalities. They wildly outnumber terrorist attack fatalities even in 2001 and yet we aren't up in arms about them. There is no Department of Highway Security, just a few underpaid cops and state troopers who clearly don't keep down this horrendous national epidemic. There are no checkpoints along the roads testing drivers for alcohol. Speeding doesn't get you sent to jail. We simply accept that we'll lose a few tens of thousands of people every year.
Don't mess with Texas! We mess up enough by ourselves.
I have actually made bullets like they're doing in my avatar. Then loaded the gun with a ramrod, and shot it. But I'm not feeling real good about guns right now.


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