Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

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TheRandomPhangirl
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby TheRandomPhangirl » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:27 pm

May I add my two cents about Phantom?
I'm the one to shout "Down with Polignac!"

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Gervais
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby Gervais » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:27 pm

Or maybe not. I found a closeup picture of him, and not feeling it so much anymore. Or maybe that's a good sign in his favor. http://www.imdb.com/media/rm799974912/t ... f_=tt_ov_i
...Imma go poke the juicebox thread.

Better late than never, Marius. :wink:

Honestly I think OMO is a little bit of a pointless song, but agree to the rest, Acaila. You could easily have Wandering Child with a shorter introduction than Wishing, you could at least shorten Music of the Night, you could easily shorten Think of Me, Masquerade, , and nothing would be lost. You could probably shorten All I Ask Of You and Point of No Return without consequences to the plot, too.

Because none of us want you to be turned into shoes or shoved into a locker, Marius. ;)

Go ahead, Phan.
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Acaila
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby Acaila » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:30 pm

Go ahead Phan. I'm not trying to be mean about the show, and obviously I have my own bias, I'm just trying to cut to the core of what I think the difference is.

On My Own is overdone, but I think the soliloquy is probably necessary. The content of it you could argue about certainly, but the only main characters who don't have some form of soliloquy are Enjolras - who is pretty external in his motivation and Cosette, who is pretty symbolic, and even then she's got the first part of In My Life.
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Mlle_Alexandrie
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby Mlle_Alexandrie » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:32 pm

Yo, Abaissers. Have any of you ever heard of the game OFF? If so, please, explain it to me because it's ALL over my dashboard and it looks vaguely apocalyptic and therefore interesting but I've got no idea what it's about...
Last edited by Mlle_Alexandrie on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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YoungStudentMarius
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby YoungStudentMarius » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:33 pm

Yay for poking the Juice Box thread! I'll be there. :wink:

That's true. And I think Beggars at the Feast and Master of the House could be shortened, too, to no great harm. But yeah, basically, it's more the sheer ratio of line for line. Though I do find it rather sad that Enjolras doesn't get a soliloquy. He of all people would probably profit from one.

And thanks, Gervais. Not the most ideal of situations in my opinion, either. :wink:

Take the floor, Phan; say what you like, and we'll listen without judgement, of course. :D

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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby TheRandomPhangirl » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:36 pm

Heh, I'll try not to sound like a whiny brat in the wrong fandom :oops: (even though I kind of am in the wrong fandom; I know far more about Phantom than Les Mis, even though I like the Brick more than Leroux's novel)

In the rather short while I was on POTO.net, alot of the stuff I did was analysis of songs, lyrics, props, costumes; stuff like that. I think the songs do have meanings, even if they are all prettied up all the time. Think of Me is a show-within-a-show thing, so it has little meaning, although I had to study it religiously for a singing exam. Music of the Night is the Phantom doing his creepy stalkish way of trying to get Christine to fall from him; seducing her with music, because that's the only thing he'll ever seduce with. All I Ask is the love song, no brainer on that, Masquerade has little meaning but it's a scene from the book, Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again is Christine reflecting on her life with her father and thinking about the happier times of her childhood due to all the annoying sh*t that is happening to her at that. I also think it was because her father told her the Angel of Music story, which Phantom nicked and used. Wandering Child is Phantom trying to lure her in again, but Raoul comes to the rescue and they have a word duel. (and Phantom shoots fireballs) After that it's all show-within-a-show things, up until Point of No Return when you realise that Phantom has taken Piangi's place and is trying, yet again, to lure Christine back. Final Lair is just.....counterpoint of notes, angst and Raoul-torture.
I'm the one to shout "Down with Polignac!"

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Gervais
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby Gervais » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:41 pm

Alix, I've heard of it, but not of what it is. Enlightenment, please? :mrgreen:
ETA: Whoops, just saw your edit. :oops: Um...this thing, maybe?

Yeah, there are songs in Les Miz that could be easily shortened, too.

Thank you, Phan. It's just that, amongst all of the prettying-up, they can come across as seeming pointless sometimes to me. Why have Music of the Night so long in the show, for example? Which is something you could argue for all musicals, I guess; why spend three minutes saying something that could just take one minute of dialogue? (Not to say that musicals are pointless; there's a lot that's expressed through music that can't be expressed through spoken word, which is your point, too.)
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Acaila
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby Acaila » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:43 pm

Why do you think Enjolras would out of interest Marius?
I mean, I'm all for more Enjolras but I don't see what we'd gain from a soliloquy from him that would really change our feelings to anything.

And songs being allowed to revel in themselves a bit is no bad thing necessarily, particularly when they have a function within the structure of the show (Master of the House definitely does). I mean, you could argue One Day More doesn't need the huge section with everyone because do we actually advance anything within that bit? But when actual entire songs seem pulled in from the ether as vaguely fitting, eh, I'm not so fond.

And despite that, I'm enough of a hypocrite to admit that I count a couple of jukebox musicals above Phantom in my favourites :D

Phan - Yes, I know what they're about, but what I'm talking about is what do these songs advance that couldn't be otherwise conveyed. What *happens* because of Wishing, or what do we learn that justifies having an entire number spent on it. I wouldn't argue about Masquerade because that is structural and I think All I Ask of You is important for you to have any hope of thinking Christine should end up with Raoul, since the poor boy doesn't even get a solo. Think of Me has that function, but could it not have been used for something that had function *and* advanced matters. It's just so generic though. I mean, compare it to other shows that have the show within a show device and manage to do exactly that with their numbers.

Les Mis, in English, certainly becomes more generic, and I usually defend that against people who prefer the original French version, but I don't think it ever crosses the line into being generic to the point of being ineffectual.

I also think this is a Lloyd Webber thing and is a side effect of the way he works. For me, his best musicals are the ones he did with Tim Rice, perhaps because they were written on a more even footing? Who knows.

Somewhat related, I'm actually wondering about doing a list of my top X showtunes. Wondering what number I should make X....
Last edited by Acaila on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Revolution: like Christmas come early only with more death
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"She's basically Enjolras meets Amy Pond"
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby redmiserable » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:44 pm

Ahh, seems I have stumbled into the middle of a debate.

I have a birthday party to go to, I will see you all later this evening! :mrgreen: Have lovely evenings/mornings/afternoons.
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Mlle_Alexandrie
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby Mlle_Alexandrie » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:48 pm

@Gervais: Unfortunately, enlightenment was what I myself was attempting to speak. :roll: I'm likely going to end up downloading it, so I'll be sure to explain it to you once I've grasped any sort of idea as to the basic plot.
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MllePatrie
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby MllePatrie » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:48 pm

I think it's interesting how you guys feel differently about stuff. And Phan, you would, it's in you name. :lol:
"Citizens," cried Enjolras, and in his voice there was almost an angry tremor, "the Republic is not rich enough in men to incur useless expenditures."

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TheRandomPhangirl
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby TheRandomPhangirl » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:49 pm

Hiya Joly. I am a Phantom geek, so I have a fair dose of bias in me. (but still, I so prefer the 1925 and 1990 POTO film than the musical)
I'm the one to shout "Down with Polignac!"

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MllePatrie
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby MllePatrie » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:51 pm

At least not the Argento or Englund ones though, right? :lol:
"Citizens," cried Enjolras, and in his voice there was almost an angry tremor, "the Republic is not rich enough in men to incur useless expenditures."

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TheRandomPhangirl
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby TheRandomPhangirl » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:52 pm

*shudder* Ugh, god no. The Argento should never have been made, it was putrid in every respect. Like, POM bad. And Julian Sand's wig :x nonononononononononononono
I'm the one to shout "Down with Polignac!"

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Gervais
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Re: Le Cafe Mu(in)sain

Postby Gervais » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:55 pm

*shiver* Argento. :shock:
Mlle_Alexandrie wrote:@Gervais: Unfortunately, enlightenment was what I myself was attempting to speak. :roll: I'm likely going to end up downloading it, so I'll be sure to explain it to you once I've grasped any sort of idea as to the basic plot.

Ah well, saw it before you edited and was thinking "Hey, it's Alix! With new stuff!" And it's really "Hey it's Alix! Wanting to try new stuff!" Which, in a way, is even better. Let us now how it is, please! :mrgreen: All I could figure out was that it involved some demented cat-thing. And just so you know, we just accidentally cast Chris Hemsworth as Sydney Carton. :lol:
Last edited by Gervais on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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